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[JobLeonard]

 

[Faust06]

And because I don't really play Zelda for the combat or puzzles (there are better games than Skyward Sword in both departments imo) but for that sense of getting immersed in a world, I didn't enjoy this game much.

I think of a successful Zelda game as being a cohesive mix of all 3. Exploration is nice, but doesn't stand up on its own without great content (though games like SOTC and ICO really pushed that limit in ways I didn't think would work). I'm all about the puzzles, and dig combat though not so much Zelda-combat.. it's sort of like a compulsive distraction, smack this or that, slice some grass, grab rupees - nothing deep about it.

[vinheim3]

I did mention a lot of good about this game, but I did find a flaw. It has to do with a big part of LoZ games.

There was no Metroidvania element after the clawshot (except for that one hole that required mogma mitts outside of the dungeon that gave you it). There was very little of the element before the clawshot (you can reach Beedle after slingshot and there are a few bombable places in Faron Woods). Getting the clawshot is the only time you can really feel the element, since you can use it in a ton of places, Skyloft, Faron Woods, Lanayru Desert.

This is a shame since the Metroidvania element is the bit that made me enjoy previous LoZ games a lot. On first time plays, I would write an expansive list on objects around me that didn't make sense, and revisit them and cross them off when I found an item that helped me make sense of the object (I pretty much do this with every Metroidvania). Even on future plays, knowing all the items, it was still fun having to re-explore previously visited areas.


Also, puzzles. Were there any in this game? The only time I remember getting stuck or having to think is when I had to figure out that you could stab those water fruits. There was also the time chasing a mogma underground. I was playing TP recently and loved that Master Sword guiardian puzzle. I also remembered WW's pear fruit puzzles and the 2D ones were filled with puzzles. This game was very action-based and did fantastic because of motion controls and enemy "puzzles" (Ghirahim) requiring motion controls, but could have been a masterpiece if they also focused on puzzles.

[gimymblert]

Someone asked me what I thought of the pirate's ship dungeon:

It's all the same. All dungeon follow a very simple formula, whether it's hidden or not, it's all about chunk + loop path + 1 hub + trigger. The main difference with older zelda is how the formula is closely followed as a template and barely stray away (contrast with zelda 3 forest temple where there is many entrance to switch back and forth from the overworld to dungeon's rooms). Every puzzle are enclosed into a define small space and will generally end with the opportunity to open a shortcut to avoid the execution sequence. Room are not necessarily explicit, they can be an unreachable path until you open the shortcut. You will have a big room at one moment which branch off into many small room for challenge you need to complete to proceed. These room can contain many transitional challenges to mask the hub formula but shortcut ensure you the pattern remain solid. It's solid framework and feel a bit mario like, except not as deep as mario (mario level have more than 3 layer of challenge per "chunk" (critical path, coin path, big coin path, various variation based on current power ups)) and gated. Basically this zelda is fight, switch, items-key. Exploration is greatly downplay and reduce to observation.

Puzzle too have a clear formula, it's about trigger and execution, the most complex one are just chain of trigger. It's not bad, it's more focused and ensure endless variation based on gameplay, but it's not brain teaser either. I need to replay other zelda to see how it differ (i'm not sure it's that different) because it surely felt different. It's all down to find a switch then execute the appropriate challenge to the switch. It reduce puzzle into a hidden switch (observation) and hidden sequence of prerequisite (generally not too deep). This is further exemplify by the timestone challenge which is entirely based on switch sequence and execution. Remember when they said no more torch puzzle? Well I can argue it's only torch puzzle, you see a torch and need to lit it up, except now it's better and more varied. Every item has its switch, and if not its use is for execution. Everything is a switch in the game, ancient cistern's lotus leaf platform? you bet it's most of the time cleverly hidden. This is not bad, it help the game have rhythm and focus on interaction rather than pausing you a moment, it makes you think you are clever for spotting the obvious because of careful presentation of sequence and hidden trigger (jumping on that trigger open a hatch but the propeller prevent me to hit the arrow trigger, oh wait did I just do a puzzle who show me that propeller stop when I switch time stone?).

The game also do not feel like a 100 persons adventure, it's less packed than TP who also took 5 years (and was equally directionless if we believe iwata's ask). 100 peoples advertise to make the game look like the kind of management urgency maneuver to make the game complete in time. This might explain the strict use of formula (that's not bad here) and the disconnected feel of the game (each team was assign a zone, even aonuma and miyamoto had to do actual level design). I guess a lot of time was spent figure out what the game was about and defining the new controls, those part really shine in the game, the final assembling is what seems hasty. It also feel like a lot of idea could not have been made into the final games or end up half assed. I bet the flying robot and the bird where meant to have higher interaction with skyloft, and that backtracking was meant to be develop into greater depth where exploring old dungeon anew would have been a great part. That might also explain how the last dungeon don't have a proper boss and many quirks.


In conclusion, it's a new zelda formula, it's great but would be more appropriate in a new franchise because zelda identity hold it back. If the game was named by any other name, it would be awesome, but it's a zelda we expect much more and it didn't deliver. The new team must stop chasing miyamoto, they are not miyamoto.

[Tuba]

Also, puzzles. Were there any in this game? The only time I remember getting stuck or having to think is when I had to figure out that you could stab those water fruits.

Stabbing the fruits.. that was a very clever use of the controls. I'm impressed how you find new ways to use your sword until very late in the game.

In conclusion, it's a new zelda formula, it's great but would be more appropriate in a new franchise because zelda identity hold it back. If the game was named by any other name, it would be awesome

Nintendo should get all of their weird ideas that don't fit Zelda very well and make a new IP out of it.

[Uykered]

The official Dinofarm review is out for this game!

http://www.dinofarmgames.com/?p=708

[s0]

Dinofarm? Isn't that the guy who made 100 Rogues?

[Fallsburg]

Dinofarm? Isn't that the guy who made 100 Rogues?

I think it's multiple, but yes.

I beat it last night and it is probably the most disappointed I have ever been with a game.  It's a fine game, but it isn't a fine Zelda game.  In a way it reminds me of the Dune books written by Brian Herbert, it hits all of the Zelda cues (Link, Triforce, Bow, Hookshot, Musical cues, etc.) but is lacking of the quintessence that made the series so great.

[phubans]

I started playing this game a night or two ago. I'm currently exploring Eldin Volcano. Impressions:

- So far the game is good, not overwhelmingly so, but it's enjoyable enough to keep me coming back, which is good. It doesn't quite feel like a Zelda game to me, but instead it feels more like something fresh and new with some Zelda elements thrown in. The gameplay is about a 7/10 so far; pretty standard fare.

- The graphics are great; the game is visually interesting and I really like the style... Though it is easy to notice blurry textures up close and all of the environment art looks like it was run through a "paint daubs" Photoshop filter. Still, the character design is great and the facial expressions and character animations really sing. 8/10 for graphics.

- The music hasn't really spoken to me quite yet; I recall a particularly nice sounding flute theme near the end of the very first opening cinematic, but other than that nothing has really struck me beside the Harp of the Goddess. The music is well composed and fitting, so I would probably put it at 7.5/10.

- The input is pretty well integrated, but can feel a bit clunky if you aren't making a conscious effort to swing your sword articulately. The movement feels pretty good, and the ability to center the camera behind you is nice. However, with some enemies (notably the sword-carrying red guys) it's not very clear how you're supposed to hit them and it quickly turns into waggling the Wiimote just to strike them. 7/10 for the controls.

- The UI is probably the game's biggest drawback; the Fi NPC is often more annoying than she is helpful, and the character herself is nothing too short of grating. I mean, why is her manner of speaking so robotic and grandiloquent? It feels forced and out of place in a game with a mostly-medieval fantasy setting. There's a little too much hand-holding and hints available to make the game feeling challenging to veterans of Zelda, so the game falls short with a 6/10 here.

Overall, I think this is a good game and worthy update to the Ocarina of Time flavor of Zelda games, but my greatest Zelda memories come from playing the 2D games like the original, ALttP, and Link's Awakening. It would be nice to see Nintendo nod to the older generation of Zelda fans with a nice, New Super Mario Bros style iteration of Zelda... But I'm not holding my breath.

[Falmil]

Would like to see how these impressions change near the end of the game.

[phubans]

Would like to see how these impressions change near the end of the game.

Do you think they will be more positive or more negative?

[SirNiko]

Your impressions of Fi are much more generous than I would give her.

[Tuba]

The game gets much better on the area after Eldin Volcano 

[Falmil]

Would like to see how these impressions change near the end of the game.

Do you think they will be more positive or more negative?

Probably negative. At first it is great to explore the regions because everything is new. After multiple visits to a region and your umpteenth visit to Skyloft, you might not feel the same way.

[phubans]

The game gets much better on the area after Eldin Volcano 

Yes, I really like the mechanic they employed for this area

Probably negative. At first it is great to explore the regions because everything is new. After multiple visits to a region and your umpteenth visit to Skyloft, you might not feel the same way.

Yeah, I've read some things about having to backtrack to areas you've already explored, and how it felt lazy and cheap to recycle these areas. Does this mean I shouldn't bother with doing backtracking for using newly acquired items on previously-closed paths (ie; going back to look for all weak walls so I can bomb them) just yet since I'll be coming back to these areas later anyways?

[Falmil]

Definitely not. Especially considering bombs are one of the first items you get.

[DinofarmGames]

Hey all.  Yeah, for those who didn't read my Skyward Sword review, I essentially say the the game is for babies.  This is of course hyperbole for joke purposes, as in reality I think the game is actually just for very young children.

Essentially, I think if we weren't raised with "Zelda" games and if videogames didn't have this sort of rock-star status, there's no way in hell anybody over the age of 18 would waste their time with something like Skyward Sword.  There is simply nothing there for an adult mind.  The puzzles are all no brainers, the quests are all busy-work, the dialogue and story are flat and uninteresting, and in between it all is a bunch of holding UP or mashing A to win (sorry, waving your hands around instead, now).

[SirNiko]

I agree that the puzzles are easy, but the combat with the bosses is actually clever and difficult. I really enjoyed the bosses with swords, since you actually had to think about which swings to make and deliver them quickly. You need to learn to use the sword to defeat the boss of the first temple and most of his attacks require very specific swings to deflect. The final bosses required some quick thinking to pick the correct swings to damage them, towards the end you needed to string four or five correct attacks in a row to deal any damage at all. Random swinging would require you to carry a lot of healing items to defeat the early bosses, and would not be enough to ever defeat the final two bosses.

A couple of the areas were fun to explore, particularly the desert and its associated mechanic. Even though the puzzles were easy, they were fun to execute on account on account of getting to see how the timestone mechanic influences the environment. The other regions had fun themes, but were mechanically pretty shallow.

Otherwise yeah, I think a lot of the game was pretty low-intelligence play coupled with a hefty helping of in-game walkthroughs in case you got stuck anywhere.

[Fallsburg]

I agree that the puzzles are easy, but the combat with the bosses is actually clever and difficult. I really enjoyed the bosses with swords, since you actually had to think about which swings to make and deliver them quickly. You need to learn to use the sword to defeat the boss of the first temple and most of his attacks require very specific swings to deflect. The final bosses required some quick thinking to pick the correct swings to damage them, towards the end you needed to string four or five correct attacks in a row to deal any damage at all. Random swinging would require you to carry a lot of healing items to defeat the early bosses, and would not be enough to ever defeat the final two bosses.

A couple of the areas were fun to explore, particularly the desert and its associated mechanic. Even though the puzzles were easy, they were fun to execute on account on account of getting to see how the timestone mechanic influences the environment. The other regions had fun themes, but were mechanically pretty shallow.

Otherwise yeah, I think a lot of the game was pretty low-intelligence play coupled with a hefty helping of in-game walkthroughs in case you got stuck anywhere.

Is the combat really that clever?  I'd wager that at least half of all battles come down to "Hey I'm blocking in this really awkward way that leaves me completely open to you swinging the sword in a specific way. What are you gonna do about it?"

[Falmil]

Is the combat really that clever?  I'd wager that at least half of all battles come down to "Hey I'm blocking in this really awkward way that leaves me completely open to you swinging the sword in a specific way. What are you gonna do about it?"

Well, its definitely more clever than it would be with normal button controls, which would just be you button mashing your sword attack on every enemy instead. The game would definitely be "clever" if the detection was more accurate. Those electric enemies really make you hesitate about which direction to slash.