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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesDotA 2 Thread
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Nillo
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« on: August 01, 2011, 06:04:13 PM »

TIGS DotA 2 Crew:
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Glaiel Gamer - stats
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Dustin Gunn - stats
John Sandoval - stats
crowe
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HOW/WHERE DO I GET AN INVITE?
This is no longer a thing. Just download the game and play.

This game sucks, XYZ is better!
Please go to the ARTS/MOBA debate thread and voice your valuable opinion there.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 03:49:46 AM by Nillo » Logged

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Uykered
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 06:16:02 PM »

Yay!
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 02:41:34 AM »

fixed it for you:

More facts:
1. DotA 2 will be released "later this year" according to the blog. But it's in Valve Time(tm), so it'll probably take at least twice as long as that.
2. HoN will shrivel up and die.
3. LoL will shrivel up and die.
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MrJ
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 02:51:05 AM »

fixed it for you:

More facts:
1. DotA 2 will be released "later this year" according to the blog. But it's in Valve Time(tm), so it'll probably take at least twice as long as that.
2. HoN will shrivel up and die.
3. LoL will shrivel up and die.

first to die is LoL, HoN is much more decent than LoL..
since vavle is the one whos doing it, me has high expectation  Beer!
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Trevor Dunbar
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 02:54:14 AM »

Whatever you say Mr.J, but I think HoN added so many crappy unfun heroes and changed so many conventions of the DOTA game that it just sucks. No runes at 45 seconds of the game? What? That creates like half of the interest of the first 5 minutes of a match.

Also-- the community blows ass, do I really want to play a game and get yelled and cursed at over a microphone by some douchebag the entire match? No thanks.

It has also been my experience that many more HoN players don't even know what the hell they're doing and just feed the entire game.



Anyways...things I want to see during the tournament:
-Oh my god, I need to see some hot Fuzzy Wuzzy action during this tournament. Blink dagger, soloing Roshan, getting crazy multi-kills, the works. It's easy to say Ursa Warrior is my favorite hero of all time, hands down.
-I also want to see Lina Inverse with some crazy battle-mage build using the Buriza
-I want to see some sick Pudge hooks, MMMMM FRESSSH MEAT!
-I want to see Meepo get to lvl 25 while the enemy team is at ~16-18 and then just go around murderizing anyone who breathes.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 03:10:39 AM by Trevor Dunbar » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 03:14:18 AM »

The original Warcraft III Dota still exists and will probably continue existing.
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Trevor Dunbar
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 03:16:05 AM »

Isn't there some unhappiness from fans about Valve taking over production of this game? DotA was a mod, produced and maintained by the player community. I think a lot of people would like the game to remain that way.

That unhappiness is pretty unwarranted--

some thoughts:
-The warcraft 3 engine is aging, VERY quickly. The mod has needed to spin-off into it's own game engine for forever. I can't even play a game without some sort of ridiculous delay on all my abilities and lag in general. If you go back and play you'll notice how 'clunky' everything feels and how unit pathing makes you want to stick a gun in your mouth.
People hack the fog of war, they leave matches with no punishment constantly, people troll constantly and try to ruin the game for others. It is zero fun without some kind of moderation built into the game engine itself.

-Starcraft 2 is NOT a good replacement engine for Dota, it's closed off, hardly anyone makes interesting maps for it, there are no fantasy units to use as the heroes. Programmically, 90% of the abilities for the Dota heroes were tweaks of actual hard-coded spells used in the Warcraft 3 campaign.

-Blizzard had all the time in the world to pick up the mod up for themselves, along with Icefrog. Someone was going to claim Dota eventually, and Blizzard dropped 'teh' ball. Blizzard could have easily made Dota a Warcraft 3 spin-off game, complete with it's own engine and could have made tons of cash. They didn't. Blizzard likes to push Battle.Net so hard and tell everyone how "awesome" it is? This would have been a perfect fit.

-Dota was a literal mess of a "game" before Icefrog stepped in and cleaned up what Guinsoo and others started with. Almsot every hero had super duper HAX abilities and could break the game in a matter of minutes. IceFrog has been with the game for years and years, without IceFrog you could argue that the game/genre/mod would have never made the splash that it has.

-Guinsoo and others founded their own game and company, they could have made "Dota 2", but decided to go a different direction and make League of Legends instead.

-Valve and Icefrog are going to take care of their fanbase and make this a great game.
You couldn't ask for more features then what they've told us. Hell, it even has a built-in replay feature, Bots to play as people who need to leave, a tutoring / teacher program, the works. League of Legends doesn't even have anything close to all of this, they don't even have an "offical" replay feature, we have to use some weird 3rd party program.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 03:59:51 AM by Trevor Dunbar » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 04:06:52 AM »

-Starcraft 2 is NOT a good replacement engine for Dota, it's closed off, hardly anyone makes interesting maps for it, there are no fantasy units to use as the heroes. Programmically, 90% of the abilities for the Dota heroes were tweaks of actual hard-coded spells used in the Warcraft 3 campaign.

I've never played SC2, but that comment surprises me. I remember Dustin Browder telling us that "the SC2 editor will make you breakfast", suggesting that it would be extremely versatile.

The four essentials for a SC2/DotA game would be: Custom models. Custom unit abilities. Custom buffs and curses. Custom particle effects.


You can make the starcraft 2 world editor do a lot of interesting things, it's all amazing and stuff, but no one is going to take MASSIVE amount of time to fully recreate Dota in it, especially if they don't have appropriate models/icons/sounds/particleFx already built and animated for them to use. You have no idea how many models you'd have to create, let alone animate, to cover all of the Dota heroes, the courier, the creeps, etc,etc.
The only one who would ever be willing to do such a thing would be Icefrog.

Then by the end of the day, it's still all shackled to battle.net without any features to help drive a MOBA game. Players have come to expect a lot of things than the core game itself, it needs a matchmaking system, a moderation system for bad players and trolls, etc, etc. You might as well just make your own MOBA game and earn an income for the amount of time you'd spend on the damn thing.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 04:19:45 AM by Trevor Dunbar » Logged

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Nillo
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 04:33:44 AM »

I think Heroes of Newerth is more threatened by the release of DotA 2 than League of Legends is. For the first thing, HoN is basically a remake of a lot of content in DotA and I think a lot of HoN players play it because it's similar to DotA. So when DotA 2 comes out, they'll be directly competing against each other for those players, while League of Legends is doing their own thing.

Secondly, League of Legends is aimed more at casual players and are actively trying to make their game as friendly to newbies as possible, while DotA and HoN are mostly aimed at "hardcore" players who want competitive gameplay and opportunities for skilled play. That's why denies exist in DotA but not in LoL, and why LoL has more simple mechanics and simple damaging spells while DotA has complicated spells that require extensive knowledge to use (and play against) properly.
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 12:15:52 PM »

I think Heroes of Newerth is more threatened by the release of DotA 2 than League of Legends is. For the first thing, HoN is basically a remake of a lot of content in DotA and I think a lot of HoN players play it because it's similar to DotA. So when DotA 2 comes out, they'll be directly competing against each other for those players, while League of Legends is doing their own thing.

You're assuming valve will recreate the most hardcore and brutal team game known to man without giving it a bit of the valve flare.
Remember, they made team fortress 2. Compare that to the original team fortress.

They will make a good game, it'll just be more streamlined, less brutal than HON.


Hon, Lol, dota 2, they'll all be different enough to keep their playerbases.



Edit: No denies in Lol? first time I've heard it. I thought that was one of the core features of a dota type game, this is utter madness  WTF
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 12:29:28 PM »

LoL is really too popular to just die all of the sudden. about 500,000 people play it every day; it's about as popular as starcraft 2. i'd expect the audience will diminish but a huge number of people will continue to play it. even if LoL's audience were decimated to 50,000 players per day, it'd still be profitable for riot
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 01:41:48 PM »

LoL is really too popular to just die all of the sudden. about 500,000 people play it every day; it's about as popular as starcraft 2. i'd expect the audience will diminish but a huge number of people will continue to play it. even if LoL's audience were decimated to 50,000 players per day, it'd still be profitable for riot
Yeah. This sort of reminds me of all those MMORPGs that were supposed to be "WoW killers." Hugely popular games don't just "die" because a "better" game comes out.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 02:07:26 PM »

if Dota2 is free, I hope to fuck they don't have the same outrageous prices as LoL. you can either pay 10 bucks to get a new champion or you can grind the 6300 ip, which can be anywhere from 70 to 100 games. and the fact you have to buy runes AND rune pages makes a huge dent in your IP wallet too.

I really hope they just charge a flat amount and give us all champions. But with TF2 going free it's hard to say what route they'll take with Dota2.
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 02:14:47 PM »

I really hope they just charge a flat amount and give us all champions. But with TF2 going free it's hard to say what route they'll take with Dota2.

Don't forget that HoN just went F2P.  If DoTA2 isn't F2P I'll eat my promotional DoTA2 TF2 promotional hat. 
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 02:56:15 PM »

The current gimmick is achievements with unlockable features. I won't be surprised if DotA-2 has these, and if it does they would probably take the form of unlockable heroes.

You mean the same model Valve abandoned in TF2 for the sake of bullshit cash shop? 
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 03:03:46 PM »

Achievements also trigger dopamine highs, which is the same way that  addictions work. Achievements don't make a more enjoyable game; they just make a more addictive game. Psychological coercion.
Doesn't work for me, apparently. Idk but I don't understand people when they say they're "addicted" to achievements. I couldn't bring myself to give a shit about a little icon with a number beside it if I tried. I yearn for the days when most games still had actual unlockables that were useful in-game.
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Nix
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2011, 03:04:48 PM »

There is nothing in the cash shop you can't get by other means. I don't see why people complain about it so much (except for the 12 year olds who's parents won't let them use their credit cards).
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2011, 03:15:14 PM »

Achievements are implemented because they increase our sense of depth of a game, but without actually adding any extra content. They give us a reason to play/pay for longer than we would otherwise be interested doing.

Achievements also trigger dopamine highs, which is the same way that  addictions work. Achievements don't make a more enjoyable game; they just make a more addictive game. Psychological coercion.

speak for yourself. I also don't know why you are bringing up achievements, I mentioned nothing of achievements. I seriously doubt Valve would make you do stupid achievements to unlock characters. if that is what you're implying, otherwise shut the fuck up, because what you are saying has no relevance to what I am saying.

the cash shop in tf2 is different than the shop in hon/lol where you have to pay individually (or grind) for characters which are the meat of the game. the game can not exist without those characters. not stupid ass guns that really don't add anything to gameplay or cosmetic hats such as in tf2.

please stop speaking for anyone but yourself, it makes you sound like an asshole.
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2011, 03:19:51 PM »

There is nothing in the cash shop you can't get by other means. I don't see why people complain about it so much (except for the 12 year olds who's parents won't let them use their credit cards).

I still don't have a Sydney Sleeper.  Nearly a full year and I still don't have it.  It took me a week, at most, to get items that were tied to achievements.  So, there's the short answer.  Do I really need to go into detail about why paying more for a single gun, that is also a terribly conceived weapon compared to the other options this classes slot would have, than I payed for the game is a bad thing?  How relying on random chance is terrible?  How there is a cap on how much someone who doesn't want to spend money can find through free drops?  

As always, I am extremely courteous and will if pressed to do so.
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2011, 03:27:25 PM »

Also, here's a point I want to bring up that has been nagging at me for the longest time.  Valve isn't good at making games that have a good competitive scene at all.  I could give less shits about the competitive FPS realm, but I think it's very important that DOTA games are able to support higher level play, which is just something I don't see from Valve anymore.

Quote
But what ab-

No.

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But they ma-

That was a mod.

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But surely y-

No.
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