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[Nix]

They are good at balance, which is the most important thing in dota-likes.

[AshfordPride]

They are good at balance, which is the most important thing in dota-likes.

For Valve, balance means the inability for anyone to have fun.  Look at the poor, poor Detonator.  I think something inside me died when they said that flarejumps were removed from the final version because they were just an unintended glitch.

Get ready for a DoTA game with conditional critical and items that don't supply crits but give some other fantastic ability so that makes them balanced.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

But what ab-

No.

But they ma-

That was a mod.

But surely y-

No.

Counter Strike, and yes its a mod, so is tf2, the original portal, left 4 dead, and pretty much every other not-halflife2 game valve has ever made

your point?

course the only one of those that even TRIES to be competitive is counter strike, and well it seems to do a good job of it...

[s0]

I know an ex-pro CS player who says that CS:Source sucks though.

[InfiniteStateMachine]

true, there is still a very large pre-valve-version CS community

I also much prefer quakeworld TF. That's based off feel and handling though. I'm not a hugely competitive player.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

@AshfordPride: I have no idea. I don't really know who Valve are other than that they made Half Life, and are now making DotA2. I don't know what TF2 is either.

i think i've finally found someone who knows less about the games industry than i do

anyway valve owns steam, that's probably what they're most famous for nowadays; their games also include the portal series. tf2 is probably the most popular game on steam (team fortress 2), it's a multiplayer online shooting game

[Nix]

AshfordPride:

1) trading
2) crafting
3) it's <$5 to buy if you want it so bad
4) it's not that great

[AshfordPride]

1) trading

Nobody even wants to bother.  I refuse to ask on an actual server, I won't have someone and myself sit in spawn while we herp and derp in tradeland.  I despise trading.  I want all of you to wrap your head around the fact that a FPS has a fucking economy.  Trading servers are inhabited with the worst people.  I now know that certain hats sell for multiple earbuds.  Horrifying. 

2) crafting

I hate this even more.  I will only get seven weapons a week, that's one reclaimed metal.  It takes one reclaimed and one specific weapon to make anything worthwhile.  I was using that piece of shit as an example, but in truth I'm interested in getting the newer weapons.  To do that, I'd have to play (read:idle) for weeks to get the maximum amount of weapons to make a single weapon I want.  I've gone from meeting the requirements for a new weapon by achievements in a single game to having to wait weeks to possibly get my hands on a new item set.

3) it's <$5 to buy if you want it so bad

Absolutely terrible and I completely refuse.  I payed ten dollars for this game and the content included in it.  The prices are absolutely outrageous.  So much so that I find that it's ethically wrong to charge this much money for new weapons.  

4) it's not that great

And here's the biggest problem.  Instead of providing items that would often completely change the way a class was played or provide an entirely new dimension of utility, we simply get tit-for-tat stat swaps that either make a weapon bluntly better or worse than the others.  

HOW IS THIS RELATED TO DOTA2?
IT IS A SHOCKING VISION OF THE FUTURE DELIVERED TO YOU BY THIS MAD PROPHET

[Nix]

Most items do provide a very new way of playing the class. It just requires you to play at a level to realize that depth. I'm sorry you don't like it. I have plenty of great weapons and all I do is play the game. I won't comment any more on this to avoid derailing the thread.

[Matt Thorson]

I play TF2 a fair amount every now and then. I don't give a crap about hats and never use the shop, and I always feel like I'm slowly gaining new items as I play (even when old items drop, that's progress towards new ones). Trading works best when you're playing and you see someone find an item you want. Trade servers do sound terrible, I've never had the urge to try one.

I think the problem is that people play TF2 like other FPSs. In most FPSs, you get X kills, you get the new gun or perk or whatever. TF2 just sort of unravels itself at its own pace. Items aren't meant to be rewards for playing well, it's more like "you've been playing for a while, here try THIS out!" And the longer you've played, the longer time between these new item gifts will be and the more trading fodder you'll receive, because you're more likely to get a duplicate. I actually kinda copied the inventory system for the item system in Fat Wizard 'cause we had similar goals . This seems like solid design to me, especially if your business model is the eShop thingy.

[eld]

"you've been playing for a while, here that LAST thing out again!"

[Trevor Dunbar]

So when did this turn into the Team Fortress 2 thread?  

The current gimmick is achievements with unlockable features. I won't be surprised if DotA-2 has these, and if it does they would probably take the form of unlockable heroes.

It would not be like Dota to lock heroes away, what they will lock up though is skins or other cosmetics. That is for sure.

They also said you can earn points towards unlockables by coaching other players.
Or by tagging into a game where a player has left. You can earn even more points by doing so and winning the game.

Get ready for a DoTA game with conditional critical and items that don't supply crits but give some other fantastic ability so that makes them balanced.

There are already like 4 or 5 items in Dota that spit out crits. They arn't going to pull those away from you. Especially with IceFrog directing this and especially considering this hinges somewhat on being an eSport. IceFrog would never let Valve do this, have you seen how much he does in each Dota: AllStars patch? He's crazy dedicated to this game.

Every item that's in Dota2 is going to be the exact same as in Dota: AllStars. They have to be if they're holding a one-million-dollar tournament for the thing. If they drastically changed items they would alienate the entire fanbase. Most heroes rely on a certain 'build' of items for their character to work competitively.

This game is not team fortress 2. You don't get negative stats on items to 'balance' items out. The two exceptions are Mask of Madness, and Armlet of Mordiggian, but the downsides are on the active abilities on those items, not the items themselves.

You brought up grind related rewards; achievements are the same concept.

Speaking of Achievements, there is no-doubt there will be progressive achievements. I doubt they will tie them to any in-game reward.

[s0]

@Allen: Next time you disagree with someone, try not to lash out at them.

[shig]

They are good at balance, which is the most important thing in dota-likes.

hi have you ever heard of a game called tf2

[Nillo]

If you're copying everything that exists in DotA, exactly as it is, how could you possibly make it less balanced or less competitive than DotA?

[eld]

Every item that's in Dota2 is going to be the exact same as in Dota: AllStars. They have to be if they're holding a one-million-dollar tournament for the thing. If they drastically changed items they would alienate the entire fanbase. Most heroes rely on a certain 'build' of items for their character to work competitively.

The teams are practicing in dota 2 already, it's safe to say it's not going to be the exact same thing as dota.

[Trevor Dunbar]

Leaked shots of DOTA 2? Nandayo!?

http://kotaku.com/5830919/dota-2-experts-believe-these-are-leaked-dota-2-screenshots

They still haven't made ursa warrior or SB or Meepo or Twin headed...lame.

I like that they changed Lina's hair from being on fire -> normal Lina Inverse red head.

I don't like the art style, but I think I can deal with it.

[Derek]

There's a trailer out now (no in-game footage): http://www.dota2.com/trailer

I've never played DotA, but I'm getting caught up in the hype for this tournament!

[Nix]

None of the teams are American

[Trevor Dunbar]

None of the teams are American

That is disappointing, I wish I could be in the tournament.