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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderator: ThemsAllTook)Game Engines for Indie Developers
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moi
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« Reply #100 on: November 20, 2011, 04:36:39 AM »

It just works nicely and is easy to edit. and has all the features that I consider essential for a 3D engine
The only problem is that there is no optimization for performance such as cached meshes and BSP and stuff like that, so you have to make a bit of background work to make complex scenes work smoothly.
also: it's free.
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SolarLune
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« Reply #101 on: November 23, 2011, 06:04:22 PM »

Hey. I'm currently checking out jMonkeyEngine 3.0, and it's looking pretty good. It's an open-source Java-based OpenGL-rendering game engine, and appears to be cross-platform as all get out. Smiley Graphically, it's impressive, and it comes with a lot of demos. I'm not versed in Java at all, but I'm willing to look into it. It seems like it's fast enough for a lot of different games, and I'm liking the 'node'-based scenegraph(?) approach (which, I think is pretty standard, but still).

EDIT: It also seems to have direct .blend file loading support, which is awesome. It's in Beta right now, but it seems to be extremely complete and have quite a few features that some engines don't even come close to having. In addition, some impressive games have been made with it, as you can see below.





P.S. The :47 mark of that video is something that I would want to play now. :D

EDIT 2: P.P.S. It's also got a kind of scene editor, though I'm wondering exactly how it ties into the game... I guess I'll just have to find out. Smiley
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 06:29:55 PM by SolarLune » Logged

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« Reply #102 on: November 26, 2011, 06:50:47 AM »

jMonkey is pretty good  Wink. When I took a class on Java I was trying it out on my own time and that was when it was 2.x, people were regularly making stable commitments to the SVN and solving problems and bugs within a week of being reported. And that version was being used for commercial MMO's already.
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eyeliner
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« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2011, 03:39:50 PM »

I'm trying to get to grips with DX Studio, but the community over there is... stale as mold...

FFS, a company should at least make the forums active. Though the manual is alright, some tutorials are incomplete or are horribly outdated.
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« Reply #104 on: November 28, 2011, 06:23:52 PM »

Well, DX Studio seems compeling enough to me, it got the postprocessing shader that unity free version lack of. And it also use the same encapsulation(OOP) style programing just like flash(AS3) and unity(JS/C#) do. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
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moi
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« Reply #105 on: November 28, 2011, 07:03:55 PM »

It helps to know other engines though.
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SolarLune
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« Reply #106 on: November 28, 2011, 08:19:18 PM »

I'm trying to get to grips with DX Studio, but the community over there is... stale as mold...

FFS, a company should at least make the forums active. Though the manual is alright, some tutorials are incomplete or are horribly outdated.

Yeah, community is a major drawing point to something as complex and potentially long-lasting as a game engine.

EDIT: I was being dumb. They totally answered my questions. :p
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 09:19:31 PM by SolarLune » Logged

astrofra
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« Reply #107 on: December 05, 2011, 03:33:06 AM »

This thread is a bit confusing to me.

On page 1, the top of the list post says : « on: September 01, 2011, 05:19:49 AM »
On page 2, a supposedly updated list says : « Reply #15 on: September 05, 2011, 10:30:29 AM »
And in the following pages, it appears there are incremental updates.

Can you confirm where is the lastest updated list ?
Thanks Smiley
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increpare
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« Reply #108 on: December 05, 2011, 03:49:13 AM »

(at the bottom of a post you can see when it was last edited)
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astrofra
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« Reply #109 on: December 05, 2011, 05:24:57 AM »

Ah. Right.
Stupid me : « Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 05:03:31 AM by Mikademus »
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« Reply #110 on: December 05, 2011, 09:25:54 AM »

Hi, I am the GameStart author.

I just came across your review and I find some parts of it borderline offensive.
I do not think we know each other and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to review and give your opinion on my work but this sounds a bit personal.

Your critics on the project have a lot of ground and I know clear licensing terms are long due. But please realize GameStart is merely in BETA and available for people to test and give feedback upon for free, nothing more at this point.

As for me talking the talk and not walking the walk you should keep in mind that it is much easier to watch and criticize than to do.
I would appreciate you showing more respect.

Thanks.
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Mikademus
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« Reply #111 on: December 05, 2011, 12:20:31 PM »

This is a very forthright community and we have neither an obligation or desire to be politically correct or polite rather than honest. As it currently stands, GameStart seems to have no relative merits and only drawbacks to other options for low-budget indie and garage game development, and for the bigger budgets there likewise seems to be radically better options. Since we're just as adamantly not out to bash anyone or anything undeservedly or for the mere sake of it please feel free to educate us about how what's being said is wrong.
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\\\"There\\\'s a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,\\\" says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex. --IGN<br />My compilation of game engines for indies
ejulien
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« Reply #112 on: December 05, 2011, 01:20:16 PM »

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hubris talk from single developer but little actual walk

This is a personal attack and while I respect your opinion on GameStart I do not appreciate the tone and the implications of this quote on my person. I surely hope you can understand why. If not, maybe this just shows how much you know about getting something done.

I am happy to read evaluations of my work, negative ones included. But consider that you are publishing your thoughts on a publicly accessible forum.
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« Reply #113 on: December 05, 2011, 04:04:01 PM »

I'd add to Shiva3D that the editor runs only on Windows so unless you want to virtualize you're tied to using Windows for development.
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moi
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« Reply #114 on: December 05, 2011, 07:37:55 PM »

I used Gamestart 3D and I think I might have AIDS
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J. R. Hill
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« Reply #115 on: December 05, 2011, 08:45:20 PM »

Quote
hubris talk from single developer but little actual walk

This is a personal attack and while I respect your opinion on GameStart I do not appreciate the tone and the implications of this quote on my person. I surely hope you can understand why. If not, maybe this just shows how much you know about getting something done.

I am happy to read evaluations of my work, negative ones included. But consider that you are publishing your thoughts on a publicly accessible forum.

So instead of being offended and telling us that this hurts your feelings, maybe it would be better to tell us how it's false.  I.e. how your descriptions of your project are not motivated or followed by pride, and how you have accomplished a significant portion of what you've set out to do.

The fact that you're offended doesn't have any bearing on whether or not the statements are true or not, and I don't think they're intended to offend you.  I mean, I can say of my own game-making projects that there's a lot of hubris talk and very little walk, and it's true.
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« Reply #116 on: December 05, 2011, 10:51:15 PM »

You can also stop using the plural as in me against "the community". I do not feel like a lesser member of the indie community or this forum than you. I stated my point. Good luck for your projects guys.

@moi: Nice Wink
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ejulien
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« Reply #117 on: December 05, 2011, 11:17:50 PM »

@J.R.Hill I don't feel at ease pleading for my cause here, I am not guilty of anything, but you ask an honest question.

I set out to make a game engine that would help people like me (small teams, limited means) make games. I feel like I succeeded in a large portion of my undertaking in that several commercial/indie projects were released using GameStart (game/non-game pc/console).
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Mikademus
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« Reply #118 on: December 06, 2011, 05:02:36 AM »

You can also stop using the plural as in me against "the community". I do not feel like a lesser member of the indie community or this forum than you.

I haven't seen you around much on this community. Please feel welcome to become a member of it though! It is a great place to get feedback on your stuff, and it worked really well for PolyCode, a colleague framework of yours.


maybe this just shows how much you know about getting something done.

If you say so. Outside here I'm only a senior IT consultant with many years business experience after all.


Anyway, concretely, the reasons GameStart can't currently be recommended in any way is because:

0) Another way to describe "beta" and "under development" is "immature and unstable" and a "risk to invest time and money in".
1) The licence terms are, generously put, unclear.
2) Charging a substantial amount for a hobbyist licence. For a system in beta?! And then you won't even get access to the C++ API?!!
3) Charging for updates.
4) The web page is severely lacking. I had to dig through the forums to find even vaguely useful information, and what was found was rhapsodic, speculative and conflicting.
5) It isn't cross-platform, and that is explicitly put up front as a highly desirable feature for indie development as of this community.
6) No 2D support.
7) Lacking important facilities for complete game solutions. The bit about having to buy "source licences" to get what other solutions provide matter-of-factly was... worrying.
8) Using non-standard scripting languages (plural) means locking one's scripts to a system, which increases the risk of investment further still.

Considering this, in what way CAN anyone evaluating several complete game solutions for Indie use honestly recommend GameStart?
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ejulien
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« Reply #119 on: December 06, 2011, 05:56:50 AM »

Quote
It is a great place to get feedback on your stuff

I'd like to free some time to spend on something else than GameStart related projects.

Quote
If you say so. Outside here I'm only a senior IT consultant with many years business experience after all.

I'm not saying anything, I was merely speculating. And I am a 12 year industry senior. Since we have our pedigrees in place maybe now can we understand each other.

I am fine with your review of GameStart. If find it harsh and partially wrong but I am taking the blame for not properly communicating on my work or my intends.

What I have a problem with is you implying that I talk a lot and do not get much done. This is plain wrong and I take it as a personal attack which is uncalled for in a software review. As the person responsible for pretty much everything you can see on the public site of GameStart I assure you, it takes a lot of work.

0) My point exactly, that's why GameStart is still in Beta and available for free in order to collect feedback. Note that one user, AndyGFX (later helped by Astrofra for graphics) managed to pull out a full game in a few weeks using this public beta, so it's not all that useless. cf. http://mrcleaner-thegame.com
1) Agreed.
2) Where did you get that I am charging anything for this Beta version!? Get your facts straight! You are making a fool of yourself.
3) Where the hell are you pulling this crap from?!!
4) Ok. Feel free to offer some help.
5) I do not have the resources to provide support for all machines the engine runs on, because I am already out of time and beyond schedule. But GameStart runs on Window, Linux, OSX, Wii, Android and soon iOS. You don't have to take my word on it but spend 5 minutes documenting yourself and you will get visual proofs of that.
6) Nonsense. All published projects made with GameStart are using 2D components and the built-in windowing system for their user interfaces.
7) Sure. As does most game engine out there even in the big names of your list.
8) GameStart uses one single scripting language: Squirrel, which can be picked up by a LUA user in a matter of minutes. ACE is very lightweight (a handful of commands, non Turing complete) scripting language specialized in animating 2D components only.

I do not ask you to recommend GameStart, keep your review as it is. Just do not make up facts out of thin air and publicly bash me for them.
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