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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralAll Purpose Animu Discussion
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Author Topic: All Purpose Animu Discussion  (Read 510526 times)
sublinimal
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« Reply #2060 on: December 11, 2012, 12:37:23 AM »

Started reading Gantz too, got flashbacks of Junji Ito. This is powerful stuff, the constant stream of surrealism and casual ultraviolence just makes my head spin. Another case of "what the hell is wrong with Japan".
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« Reply #2061 on: December 11, 2012, 12:45:55 AM »

gantz is pretty impressively drawn but it gets kind of old after 100 chapters of no plot or character develelopment

i don't even remember when it's revealed to the reader what gantz actually is... like ch 90 or something?
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« Reply #2062 on: December 11, 2012, 01:29:06 PM »

gantz is pretty impressively drawn but it gets kind of old after 100 chapters of no plot or character develelopment

i don't even remember when it's revealed to the reader what gantz actually is... like ch 90 or something?

It's still not really certain. The best we got is that a german company is producing the Gantz spheres? There is some alien race that's like humans only way bigger and they also have gantz stuff??? I don't fucking know, I stopped reading months ago.
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Sharkoss
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« Reply #2063 on: December 12, 2012, 10:43:12 AM »

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=NEOBK-1366282

punpun vol 11 has been released; can't wait for it to be fan-lated :I

I have a bad feeling about this one.  I don't see a happy ending for any of these characters and it's starting to feel like the beginning of the end.

if punpun doesnt end up with sachi i will flip my shit



seriously she's one of my favorite female characters in any medium, ever. self-motivated, agressive, insightful, funny, and brutally honest- but insecure and quick to anger... a great foil to punpun, and a great character to read in her own right.

If you like Sachi, why would you want her to end up with Punpun?  He's ball & chain.  Also, I like Aiko more.  She's cuter.
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ink.inc
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« Reply #2064 on: December 12, 2012, 11:06:03 AM »

aiko is psychotic
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Sharkoss
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« Reply #2065 on: December 12, 2012, 11:14:05 AM »

I think just damaged.  Same as Punpun.

EDIT: Probably less than Punpun.

EDIT: And probably not any more than Sachi, really.  But definitely cuter.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 11:23:25 AM by Sharkoss » Logged
zalzane
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« Reply #2066 on: December 12, 2012, 03:29:22 PM »

panty and stocking reference?
I almost don't want to watch the ending now.

its probably a Haibane Renmei reference but i like to be on the safe side



On the flip side it would be great if this series ended with a suicide. Kyoani started the moeshit craze, and they can stop it.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:37:29 PM by zalzane » Logged
ham and brie
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« Reply #2067 on: December 12, 2012, 04:08:45 PM »

Kyoani started the moeshit craze
Like how Infinity Ward started the FPS craze.
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zalzane
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« Reply #2068 on: December 12, 2012, 04:22:44 PM »

lucky star was certainly the nail in the coffin, just like what cod4 was

edit: well not the nail in the coffin, you know what i mean
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 04:27:58 PM by zalzane » Logged
gimymblert
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« Reply #2069 on: December 12, 2012, 06:25:24 PM »

Yeah lucky star was like the climax, it's was my first and my last, I enjoyed it but overdose at any other attempts. One trick pony!

Speaking of: what was the first "moe" (aka mostly girls + slice of life + kawai awkwardness). The earlier I remember in that style is azumanga daioh, therer was also the like of chobit and co who start to crank the kawai level into anime too, but the explosion of "cute" does seem to have happen with lucky star, but I'm no expert.

Yes I know moe is a kind of manga girl (awkward+cute+glass+busty) but let speak of the "genre" as I define it above (and that it seems that moe now designate). I think moe became a genre with K.on
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 06:31:57 PM by Gimmy TILBERT » Logged

Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #2070 on: December 12, 2012, 06:36:31 PM »

this whole whiny "these genres i dislike are ruining 'x' industry" schtick you asshats keep pulling is seriously getting old. get over it already. i'm sick of reading about how one of you (gimmy, zalzane, phubans, etc) miss the old days on every single fucking page of every single fucking thread. go make a nostalgia thread or something instead of polluting every media-centric topic with your incessant whining.
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zalzane
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« Reply #2071 on: December 12, 2012, 06:53:29 PM »

what was the first "moe"

That's a good question, you're probably going to have to go wayyyy back. People have been bitching about moe (though not necessarily under that name) for a long time. I've seen usenet discussion threads dating back to the early 90s with people complaining about cute girls doing cute things, and how sailor moon was going to ruin anime.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #2072 on: December 12, 2012, 07:10:17 PM »

this whole whiny "these genres i dislike are ruining 'x' industry" schtick you asshats keep pulling is seriously getting old. get over it already. i'm sick of reading about how one of you (gimmy, zalzane, phubans, etc) miss the old days on every single fucking page of every single fucking thread. go make a nostalgia thread or something instead of polluting every media-centric topic with your incessant whining.

My post wasn't about whining Big Laff
There was no judgement of value at all

@sharkoss
It really depend on your exposition exposure to anime and genre you affectionate (even if one strength of manga is actually to blur what taste mean, you can love totally unexpected things due to massive genre cross over).

If you have little exposition, rejoice there is plenty good anime (in the history of anime) for whatever taste you have, also it will be less jarring to start with derivative works with minor iteration.

EDITed based on blademasterbobo
But I did start when manga where seeing this massive explosion in genre and mixing, around evangelion and cow boy bebop and other escaflowne! But it is also a general consensus that the result was a big rise of otaku pandering anime.

@zalzane
Kawaii is not moe, but moe is indeed the absolute evolution of kawaii. I'm speaking of this specific format with actually pretty good animation and the perfecting of cute (see erobotan avatar). I took the root from kawaii (chobit) because it happen that kawaii was becoming the main draw to some anime over anything else.

I also suspect that the harem shonen also have birth some tropes as well for the moe and slice of life model but without the harem (ie no hero that is a boy with the girls), the kind of love hina (big cast of cute girl) and co, moe is that without the male hero and the romance.

Sailor moon is not that at all, it's one of the bridge about blurring genre in anime by mixing shojo and sentai, it's not very kawaii at all, it's more like the clamp school of action anime made by girls for girls and which had drawn guys in the process. The 90 is basically that, the big explosion that have the barrier fall between categorization. Even dragon ball is part of this with the definition of modern shonen (and the invention of the martial art championship tropes). All of these trend is why we have work like punpun which would be experimental anywhere else but in manga. I mean seriously, look at any modern manga and say it belong to one genre, even if it is, many similar manga span across many genre at the same time.

However I'm talking about anime, not manga per see (i don't follow manga right now, too hard for me to keep an eye currently, i only follow berseck)
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gimymblert
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« Reply #2073 on: December 12, 2012, 07:25:06 PM »

Let's put that way, the recipe for modern manga:

- Slice of life: character interaction and psychology
- thriller/detective story: mystery to propel the plot
- scify/fantasy/horror: world development, excuse for plot device/power/action

Remove or tweak ad nauseum, the ultimate story device

One great example is "blood the last vampire" the anime series, the movie was pure action, they put slice of life for padding and increase character development and attachment to them, they dig the fantastic setting to explain almost anything and random deus ex machina, there is plenty mystery that propel the plot forward as they are unresolved and new mystery happen to be sure there is plot behind plot.

The structure is always the same: normal life, irruption of the extraordinary, what just happen reveal, going onto an adventure, there is much more you can chew adventure, the big baddies reveal, there is more than the baddies, good and bad is no so clear cut, but here is the final rush, final fight is ideological discourse action ... I have explain 90% of modern anime. Not that's bad, but it start to show through. BIG twist happen regularly in the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 13th, 26th episodes like tick on a clock.

But what is truly novel? The last anime that caught my eyes was the melancoly of haruhi suzumiya, it was told out of order but in order of dramatic impact, fun experiment, basically there was two order to see it and both was relevant, it had turn anime into a puzzle.
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« Reply #2074 on: December 12, 2012, 08:04:22 PM »

I really don't like the misappropriation of the word 'moe' as a genre. It's a character element and it's quite useful as that. It's like the endless misunderstanding of 'shounen', 'seinen', etc. They're useful terms already - redefining them makes things murkier. I don't really know what you're talking about when you say 'moe anime' - is Aria 'moe anime'? Is Kamichu? Sora no Woto?

I think when people say 'moeshit', or 'cute-girls-doing-cute-things', they're not usually including these shows, but when you talk about and criticise 'moe' I feel a bit lost.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #2075 on: December 12, 2012, 08:17:02 PM »

Moe first designate the emotion of protection toward vulnerable character such as Rei ayanami in evangelion and sailor saturn (hotau toMOE) in sailor moon. But in these anime these girls are still bishoujo (pretty girl). The other type of girl was the lolicon (gasp).

Moe became a type of character with the kind of lucky star, ie ultra childlike cutesy girl. The trend of moefication of anything also start, like turning any object, person, idea, into cute girl (strike witch for exemple, or those video where pokemon character are turn in moe girls).

Then these character start to bleed into their own format, the all moe cast like K on and lucky star, which not only had became a genre, but start to contaminate other genre too, central character get overshadowed by the token moe girl, then the moe girl became the center of attention despite not being the main character.

It has also span a subgenre, the imouto, which is ambiguous relationship between brother and ultra cutesy sister (and their friends), borderline on incest. Even when there isn't an official relationship, it might be define as such metaphorically (gunslinger girls). It's effective when the feeling of protection get mixed with hardcore situation. The genre continue to evolve by cannibalizing other genre and tone (puella madoka).

As such the techniques are not new (elfen lied is not technically a "moe" but has all their attributes used a narrative device).

The backlash the genre receive is that it is so effective that it feel manipulative yet addicting, therefore overusing it as it is currently as a trend is not met with happiness.

EDIT:
It is also funny to see that the bronies phenomenon was prepared by moe habituation. MLP has some attribute of moe and is not so far from lucky star in structure and tone.

EDIT2:
However one aspect that fascinate me with manga and the volution of kawai, is how it has bridge the boy club with the girl camp. Before manga everything was clearly gendered, and I grew up seeing the softening manga brought. Suddenly it was okay to for boy to like cute, girly stuff! and so was the reverse too, girl liking boy stuff. The habituation was led by small dose, ambiguous gender, gender bending anime (ranma 1/2), action anime with cute element (db and dbz, especially the emphasis on fatherhood in DBZ), cross of previously gendered genre (sailor moon), quality plot, male stuff show in cute form (city hunter) ... oh and game too! Manga totally change the way gender was define as a story format!

EDIT:
Regarding Aria, it looks like more a bishoujo with moe influence, definition is not clear cut, it's about a trend that is impacting every aspect.

YET ANOTHER EDIT:
A good example is blood the last vampire and the jump from the movie to the anime, while it's not a moe, we can see there was indeed a moefication of the main character shown in many akward situation before revealing her somber part, but blood is complex and sophisticate remix of tropes of many genre, from the fantastical shojo (with the phlegmatic and totally fidel "butler" character who come from nowhere) to the thriller, etc...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 08:43:27 PM by Gimmy TILBERT » Logged

ink.inc
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« Reply #2076 on: December 12, 2012, 08:46:03 PM »


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Ashkin
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« Reply #2077 on: December 12, 2012, 09:01:30 PM »

Watching Steins;Gate, up to episode 15. At first I wasn't quite sure, but now this is getting gooooood.
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zalzane
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« Reply #2078 on: December 12, 2012, 09:07:32 PM »

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ink.inc
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« Reply #2079 on: December 12, 2012, 11:10:10 PM »

yuuta NO
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