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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralAll Purpose Animu Discussion
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Author Topic: All Purpose Animu Discussion  (Read 356085 times)
Ashkin
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« Reply #2080 on: December 12, 2012, 09:01:30 pm »

Watching Steins;Gate, up to episode 15. At first I wasn't quite sure, but now this is getting gooooood.
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zalzane
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« Reply #2081 on: December 12, 2012, 09:07:32 pm »

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ink.inc
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« Reply #2082 on: December 12, 2012, 11:10:10 pm »

yuuta NO
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ham and brie
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« Reply #2083 on: December 13, 2012, 12:44:54 am »

Moe first designate the emotion of protection toward vulnerable character such as Rei ayanami in evangelion and sailor saturn (hotau toMOE) in sailor moon. But in these anime these girls are still bishoujo (pretty girl). The other type of girl was the lolicon (gasp).

[etc]

I don't know why you're rambling on about something you clearly don't actually know about.
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Ashkin
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« Reply #2084 on: December 13, 2012, 01:22:38 am »

Moe first designate the emotion of protection toward vulnerable character such as Rei ayanami in evangelion and sailor saturn (hotau toMOE) in sailor moon. But in these anime these girls are still bishoujo (pretty girl). The other type of girl was the lolicon (gasp).

[etc]

I don't know why you're rambling on about something you clearly don't actually know about.
Ray Ayanami is the MOE-EST character ever man what are YOU talking about

Also just watched episode 17 of Steins;Gate
F... ffffffffeeeeeeels
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Capntastic
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« Reply #2085 on: December 13, 2012, 02:24:49 am »

Is there an anim about shooting dice in alleys across the world to become the best at shooting dice?
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« Reply #2086 on: December 13, 2012, 04:43:30 am »

Moe first designate the emotion of protection toward vulnerable character such as Rei ayanami in evangelion and sailor saturn (hotau toMOE) in sailor moon. But in these anime these girls are still bishoujo (pretty girl). The other type of girl was the lolicon (gasp).

[etc]

I don't know why you're rambling on about something you clearly don't actually know about.
Don't even try to pretend that the moe trend is about anything but awful insecure nerds fetishizing ineptitude and helplessness.
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« Reply #2087 on: December 13, 2012, 05:16:39 am »

Moe first designate the emotion of protection toward vulnerable character such as Rei ayanami in evangelion and sailor saturn (hotau toMOE) in sailor moon. But in these anime these girls are still bishoujo (pretty girl). The other type of girl was the lolicon (gasp).

[etc]

I don't know why you're rambling on about something you clearly don't actually know about.
Don't even try to pretend that the moe trend is about anything but awful insecure nerds fetishizing ineptitude and helplessness.

That's like saying romantic movies are only for ugly virgins who wouldn't find a partner in real life anyway.
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ham and brie
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« Reply #2088 on: December 13, 2012, 05:32:24 am »

Don't even try to pretend that the moe trend is about anything but awful insecure nerds fetishizing ineptitude and helplessness.

I guess I need to be clearer if people are going to read something like that into my post? My problem with Gimmy's posts is that he's clearly not well informed enough about the terminology to be writing as though he is.

The other type of girl was the lolicon
Loli is the type of girl; lolicon is attraction to loli or a person with lolicon. And loli as a character type isn't separate from bishoujo; they're basically the especially young looking bishoujo characters.

Saying things like...
Quote
But in these anime these girls are still bishoujo
Quote
Regarding Aria, it looks like more a bishoujo with moe influence
...doesn't make sense. Moe is to bishoujo what funny is to comedians. Aria is a moe anime because its focus is about bishoujo characters. And it's following the moe aesthetic, which is a character style mostly about making bishoujo characters more moe.
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Aik
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« Reply #2089 on: December 13, 2012, 05:55:32 am »

Sorry Gimmy, but I think you have no idea what you're talking about. Things like bishoujo, moe, imouto, whatever are not genres or subgenres. They're character traits. The only reason people can get away with using them to describe genres is because they're Japanese words and so you don't have to think about how stupid and undescriptive genres called 'beautiful girls', 'cute girls' and 'little sisters' are.

It's even more ridiculous when you mention something like Gunslinger Girl. Sure, Hentrietta and the other girls are 'moe' (in plain English: cute) and the Fratello relationship is somewhat brother-sisterly, but categorising by that is stupid. It's like saying James Bond is a suave man movie, while Terminator is macho. No - they're fucking action movies.

I don't mind the idea of a genre label to describe things like K-On, Lucky Star, etc. - but 'moe' is not it. Especially if you're going to use the same label for stuff like Gunslinger Girl or Madoka.


I don't think manga has brought any softening of gender lines. Walk into a bookstore in Japan and tell me you don't feel intimidated as fuck to go into the shoujo manga section. Cuteness is just valued differently in Japan, and it's acceptable for males to like it.
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Jimym GIMBERT
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« Reply #2090 on: December 13, 2012, 06:12:21 am »

Take it like you want, that's my interpretation, nothing down your throat! Yes technically moe are bishoujo, but I think there is definite traits that the moe trend have promote that have solidify enough to have this distinction. So I talk from this distinction as it is visible as if they were separate. Yes I would make a distinction between swarzy/stalone action movie and james bond, structurally and conceptually those are different, and both have spawn subgenre and copycat.

EDIT:
I have just checked wikipedia (not the end source yes I know) at least it match partially my own interpretation .
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ham and brie
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« Reply #2091 on: December 13, 2012, 07:25:29 am »

Yes technically moe are bishoujo

Using "moe" like that doesn't make sense.
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Jimym GIMBERT
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« Reply #2092 on: December 13, 2012, 07:55:23 am »

I have already explain, moe is about the feelings but HAS evolve to designate character then a specific format, so it does make sense regarding the use of the words.  Shrug
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« Reply #2093 on: December 13, 2012, 03:37:57 pm »

Is there an anim about shooting dice in alleys across the world to become the best at shooting dice?

And if so, what sub-genre would it be classified under?
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Capntastic
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« Reply #2094 on: December 13, 2012, 04:14:00 pm »

Like, I would be cool with some JJBA styled dice-shooting powers.
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ham and brie
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« Reply #2095 on: December 13, 2012, 04:35:39 pm »

The genre would be Gambling, duh.

If there were series about shooting dice it would be called Craps o Shite (クラップスをして)
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VDZ
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« Reply #2096 on: December 17, 2012, 07:09:56 am »

this whole whiny "these genres i dislike are ruining 'x' industry" schtick you asshats keep pulling is seriously getting old. get over it already. i'm sick of reading about how one of you (gimmy, zalzane, phubans, etc) miss the old days on every single fucking page of every single fucking thread. go make a nostalgia thread or something instead of polluting every media-centric topic with your incessant whining.

My post wasn't about whining Big Laff
There was no judgement of value at all

@sharkoss
It really depend on your exposition exposure to anime and genre you affectionate (even if one strength of manga is actually to blur what taste mean, you can love totally unexpected things due to massive genre cross over).

If you have little exposition, rejoice there is plenty good anime (in the history of anime) for whatever taste you have, also it will be less jarring to start with derivative works with minor iteration.

EDITed based on blademasterbobo
But I did start when manga where seeing this massive explosion in genre and mixing, around evangelion and cow boy bebop and other escaflowne! But it is also a general consensus that the result was a big rise of otaku pandering anime.

@zalzane
Kawaii is not moe, but moe is indeed the absolute evolution of kawaii. I'm speaking of this specific format with actually pretty good animation and the perfecting of cute (see erobotan avatar). I took the root from kawaii (chobit) because it happen that kawaii was becoming the main draw to some anime over anything else.

I also suspect that the harem shonen also have birth some tropes as well for the moe and slice of life model but without the harem (ie no hero that is a boy with the girls), the kind of love hina (big cast of cute girl) and co, moe is that without the male hero and the romance.

Sailor moon is not that at all, it's one of the bridge about blurring genre in anime by mixing shojo and sentai, it's not very kawaii at all, it's more like the clamp school of action anime made by girls for girls and which had drawn guys in the process. The 90 is basically that, the big explosion that have the barrier fall between categorization. Even dragon ball is part of this with the definition of modern shonen (and the invention of the martial art championship tropes). All of these trend is why we have work like punpun which would be experimental anywhere else but in manga. I mean seriously, look at any modern manga and say it belong to one genre, even if it is, many similar manga span across many genre at the same time.

However I'm talking about anime, not manga per see (i don't follow manga right now, too hard for me to keep an eye currently, i only follow berseck)

Moe first designate the emotion of protection toward vulnerable character such as Rei ayanami in evangelion and sailor saturn (hotau toMOE) in sailor moon. But in these anime these girls are still bishoujo (pretty girl). The other type of girl was the lolicon (gasp).

Moe became a type of character with the kind of lucky star, ie ultra childlike cutesy girl. The trend of moefication of anything also start, like turning any object, person, idea, into cute girl (strike witch for exemple, or those video where pokemon character are turn in moe girls).

Then these character start to bleed into their own format, the all moe cast like K on and lucky star, which not only had became a genre, but start to contaminate other genre too, central character get overshadowed by the token moe girl, then the moe girl became the center of attention despite not being the main character.

It has also span a subgenre, the imouto, which is ambiguous relationship between brother and ultra cutesy sister (and their friends), borderline on incest. Even when there isn't an official relationship, it might be define as such metaphorically (gunslinger girls). It's effective when the feeling of protection get mixed with hardcore situation. The genre continue to evolve by cannibalizing other genre and tone (puella madoka).

As such the techniques are not new (elfen lied is not technically a "moe" but has all their attributes used a narrative device).

The backlash the genre receive is that it is so effective that it feel manipulative yet addicting, therefore overusing it as it is currently as a trend is not met with happiness.

EDIT:
It is also funny to see that the bronies phenomenon was prepared by moe habituation. MLP has some attribute of moe and is not so far from lucky star in structure and tone.

EDIT2:
However one aspect that fascinate me with manga and the volution of kawai, is how it has bridge the boy club with the girl camp. Before manga everything was clearly gendered, and I grew up seeing the softening manga brought. Suddenly it was okay to for boy to like cute, girly stuff! and so was the reverse too, girl liking boy stuff. The habituation was led by small dose, ambiguous gender, gender bending anime (ranma 1/2), action anime with cute element (db and dbz, especially the emphasis on fatherhood in DBZ), cross of previously gendered genre (sailor moon), quality plot, male stuff show in cute form (city hunter) ... oh and game too! Manga totally change the way gender was define as a story format!

EDIT:
Regarding Aria, it looks like more a bishoujo with moe influence, definition is not clear cut, it's about a trend that is impacting every aspect.

YET ANOTHER EDIT:
A good example is blood the last vampire and the jump from the movie to the anime, while it's not a moe, we can see there was indeed a moefication of the main character shown in many akward situation before revealing her somber part, but blood is complex and sophisticate remix of tropes of many genre, from the fantastical shojo (with the phlegmatic and totally fidel "butler" character who come from nowhere) to the thriller, etc...

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HöllenKobold
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« Reply #2097 on: December 17, 2012, 08:24:09 am »

posting gifs with bold text is worse

but this is the worst post for a new page
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ink.inc
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« Reply #2098 on: December 17, 2012, 08:04:53 pm »





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zalzane
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« Reply #2099 on: December 17, 2012, 10:45:43 pm »

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