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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamescloning games; minecraft; and terrible people
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Zaphos
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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 01:00:52 AM »

Minecraft really NEEDS to be cloned immediately. There has to be Minecraft FPS shooter, which has ALL the current features of MC but also [etc]. Jesus Notch won't make this, so there has to be someone somewhere to step up and clone the damn thing.
That sounds more suitable for a mod than a clone, possibly?
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« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2011, 01:13:10 AM »

Minecraft really NEEDS to be cloned immediately. There has to be Minecraft FPS shooter, which has ALL the current features of MC but also [etc]. Jesus Notch won't make this, so there has to be someone somewhere to step up and clone the damn thing.
That sounds more suitable for a mod than a clone, possibly?

What I've come across, you cant quite mod that at least yet(?). I think such changes needs to hassle with source code.
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« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 01:26:01 AM »

Minecraft really NEEDS to be cloned immediately. There has to be Minecraft FPS shooter, which has ALL the current features of MC but also [etc]. Jesus Notch won't make this, so there has to be someone somewhere to step up and clone the damn thing.
That sounds more suitable for a mod than a clone, possibly?

What I've come across, you cant quite mod that at least yet(?). I think such changes needs to hassle with source code.

The sourcecode of minecraft is unofficially widely available, and in the future it'll be unobfuscated for official modding.

But if people went that far it wouldn't be a clone anymore, ace of spades is a first person shooter with a blocky reshapeable world.
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« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2011, 02:10:34 AM »

A bit offtopic, but how about a Cave Story "metroidvania" rip-offs?
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marcus
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« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2011, 04:17:38 AM »

Personally, I think that people are generally fine with cloning for good reason. When it comes to mechanics, it seems to me as if 99% of games (indie as well as mainstream) do not really bring anything new to the table in terms of mechanics, and I don't just mean coming up with a completely new concept but even combining pre-existing mechanics in novel ways - most just use a template somebody else came up with. 99% of these "mechanics clones" don't get called out on this - it's just when somebody clones a more recently "discovered" set of mechanics that people seem to get upset. I mean, look at the droves of roguelikes about. I'm no expert, but the absolute bulk of them seem to play out pretty uniformly to me.

Personally, I don't think this distinction between "everybody else has already copied this to death, so it's fine" and "nobody else has copied this yet, so this is morally reprehensible" is really fair. If MineCraft had been a 20 year old game, had people been so bothered? I guess the real problem is perhaps whether or not somebody is making money at the expense of somebody else..?

(disclaimer: I haven't played any of the games the OP listed)
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st33d
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« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2011, 04:33:51 AM »

Most games start as clones, but do not end as clones. They take genetic material from other games and become part of a genre or a new mechanic entirely. Healthy games.

A game that finishes as a clone is an inbred game, a spawn of only itself.

A cripple, dribbling through its malformed face and seeking the ruin of its more perfect genetic template.
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« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2011, 05:26:25 AM »

Personally, I don't think this distinction between "everybody else has already copied this to death, so it's fine" and "nobody else has copied this yet, so this is morally reprehensible" is really fair. If MineCraft had been a 20 year old game, had people been so bothered?

This is a very good observation. When a new metroidvania pops out on TIGS, everyone gets excited, even though it's a clear clone of certain two games. It's even in the name. When a Minecraft clone appears, it inevitably starts a shit storm. It's kinda weird, as they are on the same level creativity-wise. The only difference being that one is an established "genre" at this point, while the other is relatively fresh.

It's really hard to tell "good" cloning from "bad" cloning. Everything we do as humans is rooted in our culture and what we already know. Be it art, science or games. Iteration is what kinda makes this whole progress thing going.

I really only get angry at direct rip-offs. Like when some scumbag steals the assets or just makes something that looks exactly the same, and publishes it on the iOS for a quick buck.
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« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2011, 05:56:31 AM »

Quote
Personally, I don't think this distinction between "everybody else has already copied this to death, so it's fine" and "nobody else has copied this yet, so this is morally reprehensible" is really fair.
I think it's very fair because you're competing with your source material while it's still new. Clones are by definition not creative and are often made purely to cash in on a current trend. I find clones, especially of new games, morally reprehensible because I find uncreative games made solely for profit morally reprehensible.

There is a marked distinction between a game in the same genre and a clone which we've already discussed. Cave Story is a "clone" of Metroid in the same way that Halo is a "clone" of Doom (i.e. not at all).
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« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2011, 06:11:34 AM »

There is a marked distinction between a game in the same genre and a clone which we've already discussed. Cave Story is a "clone" of Metroid in the same way that Halo is a "clone" of Doom (i.e. not at all).
^

All Metroidvanias are exploration platformers, but not all exploration platformers are Metroidvanias.

All Doom Clones are first-person-shooters, but not all first-person-shooters are Doom Clones.

All Minecraft Clones are block-building exploration games, but not all block-building exploration games are Minecraft Clones.

Need I go on
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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2011, 08:25:38 AM »

Fortresscraft was obviously made to be a Minecraft clone, like what Gameloft does all the time.. that kind of practice is terrible.

As for Minecraft/Infiniminer, nowadays no game start from scratch, every game borrows something from another game, notch started making something like Infiniminer because he thought it was cool and realized that the game could be better with some additions, a lot of games start like this.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2011, 09:39:28 AM »

clones are not "already seen" feeling and "block aesthetics", gimmy!

What I meant is that minecraft as such a signature visual link to his gameplay that people will label any derivative 3D block staking world (or even 2D) a clone despite the addition or modification of the core concept. terraria was under fire despite having deeper influence past minecraft. Minecraft mod doesn't help because whatever new idea a "clone" would have to improve the formula is likely to be available as minecraft mod before it is release. So clone have very little to offer more than minecraft in term of concept or visual. Unless someone have a radical new idea that isn't possible on the format and truly add something new.
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« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2011, 09:51:06 AM »

Lords of Uberdark doesn't use blocks and will be competitive AFAIK.
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JWK5
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« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2011, 09:52:22 AM »

What I meant is that minecraft...
Shhh, Timmy! You know your devil-speak is just going to get you burned at the stake!  Who, Me?
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gimymblert
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« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2011, 10:14:48 AM »

Lords of Uberdark doesn't use blocks and will be competitive AFAIK.
I think RTS like is the next crop of "clone", I have already witness a few, look like a logical continuation in before mount'n'blade like first person 4X (also battlezone + minecraft asap plz)
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« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2011, 10:25:18 AM »

There is a pretty embarrassing interview on YouTube with one of the guys working on FortressCraft. (Though it sounds like maybe he is just the PR guy?)

Included gems:

"There are so many differences (between Minecraft and FortressCraft) that I don't know where to start."

"As far as the mechanics go of it, in the first chapter, there won't be too many mechanics there."

"There is going to be a huge change, every five days. Every five days, the game will be updated."

"I don't know if we'll make it to chapter ten before this is found in a GameStop near you."

"This is the most talked about indie game I've ever seen."

He also implies that the game will easily be able to sell 150,000 copies with the first chapter alone. (overtaking the best selling XBLIG game, I Made a Game with Zombies in It!)
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gimymblert
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« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2011, 10:28:33 AM »

So far it had sells one million bucks (350 000 copy):
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/11/fortresscraft-makes-a-million-on-xblig/
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Belimoth
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« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2011, 10:29:07 AM »

There is a pretty embarrassing interview on YouTube with one of the guys working on FortressCraft. (Though it sounds like maybe he is just the PR guy?)

Included gems:

"There are so many differences (between Minecraft and FortressCraft) that I don't know where to start."

Translation: "Cmon guys we half-changed the name what else do you want."
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astrospoon
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« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2011, 10:49:18 AM »

So far it had sells one million bucks (350 000 copy):
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/11/fortresscraft-makes-a-million-on-xblig/

That... that is depressing.  Cry
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Tuba
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« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2011, 10:51:34 AM »

So far it had sells one million bucks (350 000 copy):
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/11/fortresscraft-makes-a-million-on-xblig/

Fuck it! I'm making a Minecraft clone!
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gimymblert
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« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2011, 11:26:04 AM »

HOLY SHIT i just check what that "clone" was up to, and it's mostly different than minecraft, actually it might be WAY better if this grew!



custom object creation


factories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7dosiucPOY resource chain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoCIFRzT3Q8 custom behaviour for custom object
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxcRd6XUUI interesting items ... Huh? okay just a few
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