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[shig]

What you guys are suggesting is turning Minecraft into a game that isn't Minecraft. It was never meant to be competitive or a hardcore action game and that's not why most people play it.

For starters I don't really like what Minecraft is right now and wouldn't really care if it became something completely different. But that isn't really necessary.
The game was meant to have combat, and every once in a while there are new monsters added to it. Having those two features being less terrible would make the "survival" part of Minecraft much more interesting. It doesn't need to be competitive nor a hardcore action game to achieve that. It just has to make you think harder about staying alive, maybe even by building things in certain ways that trap monsters and stuff.

[eld]

On topic, I get the feeling that Mojang and Notch want to start expanding Minecraft with new modes that allow for a choice between the sandbox and the survival game. You may not need a clone or give up your vanilla Minecraft, just pick the mode you like best and stick with it.

I think adventure mode is something that's going in there, something like survival but without building, for people to play other peoples adventure maps with.

For starters I don't really like what Minecraft is right now and wouldn't really care if it became something completely different. But that isn't really necessary.
The game was meant to have combat, and every once in a while there are new monsters added to it. Having those two features being less terrible would make the "survival" part of Minecraft much more interesting. It doesn't need to be competitive nor a hardcore action game to achieve that. It just has to make you think harder about staying alive, maybe even by building things in certain ways that trap monsters and stuff.

Combat has been getting improvements, and from what I gather they want to improve it further, the recent additions were a stamina-like system, sprinting, critical damage if you sprint or jump and hit, as well as charged bows.

[Geeze]

Yup 1.8 made combat a bit more interesting. (well players got new options in attacking but mobs behave like tgey used to)

[st33d]

What you guys are suggesting is turning Minecraft into a game that isn't Minecraft. It was never meant to be competitive or a hardcore action game and that's not why most people play it.

For starters I don't really like what Minecraft is right now and wouldn't really care if it became something completely different. But that isn't really necessary.
The game was meant to have combat, and every once in a while there are new monsters added to it. Having those two features being less terrible would make the "survival" part of Minecraft much more interesting. It doesn't need to be competitive nor a hardcore action game to achieve that. It just has to make you think harder about staying alive, maybe even by building things in certain ways that trap monsters and stuff.

The problem with the minecraft mobs is that they're aren't centered around the minecraft mechanic.

I imagine we just need to wait until they feel confident to tackle a mob that can mine and create. It's not a short order.

[SirNiko]

Endermen come really close to this - they are capable of moving blocks around.

Really, the legend of "Herobrine" comes pretty close to what would make for a good foe in Minecraft. I got the impression that Endermen were heavily inspired by him. Constructing little nonsensical structures, behaving in a non-hostile way except under specific circumstances.

Creepers tend to be more annoying than dangerous. With the exception of when you're in a mine, all they do is make a mess of your structures and create pointless busy work.

[s0]

Yeah, turning Minecraft into a sort of open world exploration "roguelike" could work and the newest updates seem to be taking it in that direction. we'll see.

[PompiPompi]

On the subject of clonning. My opinion is that people "can do what they like". It's all fair competition. If someone wants to make a clone of a successful game, and is going to make the exact same game only better in performance\graphics whatever, it's their right to do so.
To be honest, I can barely play minecraft because(I think) it's network is really bad. It's basically TCP(as far as I know), so that means that if your connection is not 100% reliable you can drop the connection, and it does happen to me a lot.
I am still not sure if it's my connection or it's just Minecraft, but I have no problems playing other multiplayer games such as terraria or Portal 2, and etc.
So personally, I will be glad to have a clone of minecraft that it's network actually works for me.
Why do I need to settle for a Minecraft monopoly?

[s0]

It's all fair competition. If someone wants to make a clone of a successful game, and is going to make the exact same game only better in performance\graphics whatever, it's their right to do so.

court cases have been fought (and won) over that kind of stuff, so no.

[SirNiko]

Why do I need to settle for a Minecraft monopoly?

One person spends two-three years and a substantial chunk of their savings developing a game, and then another group spends a few weeks coding one minor improvement and then earning the lion's share of the profits. The copier assumes no risk and gets the business, while the true developer would be left with nothing.

Improving the product is even optional. If you have zero development costs (because you didn't develop anything) you can charge way less than the developer and still make a handsome profit. The developer can't compete and loses the business.

This is the purpose of copyright laws, to ensure that the persons who create the invention get to be the persons who profit from the invention.

Thankfully most developers aren't driven out of business by copiers, but it's still poor practice and diverts funds away from people who make original games and to people with minimal creative abilities who are just good at stealing ideas and copying software.

[s0]

BTW Minecraft's singleplayer "survival" mode is better than the multiplayer imo. I'm glad the adventure updates are making SP more interesting.

[gimymblert]

Whatever, minecraft is a bad example because infiniminer?

[s0]

Minecraft isn't a clone of Infiniminer. Terraria isn't a clone of Minecraft. Fortresscraft is a clone of Minecraft though.

[gimymblert]

how long it will be it doesn't seem to stay on the minecraft mold (and apparently never was plan to be, merely a starting point for a project he was already working)

[s0]

i think his "justifications" are pretty weak. if he just came out and said he wanted to make a minecraft clone for xblig because he saw a market for it i'd have a bit less of a problem with it. to be honest with you i think making games for purely commercial reasons sucks, it's unhealthy for the medium as a whole and is not as looked down upon as it should be.

if we're ever supposed to arrive at a point where games are accepted as an artform and not just consumer products that is.

[1982]

if we're ever supposed to arrive at a point where games are accepted as an artform and not just consumer products that is.

Okay. First of all, those two things are not in contradiction. Secondly, what is this obsession to have games to be accepted as artform anyway?

[gimymblert]

I have track the deal before making my mind, and there is still trace of it. Basically it'son xblig because he was challenge into it on minecraft forums because people thought it was possible. There is evidence of plan prior to minecraft (as a dwarf fortress clone hence the fortress in the title) and minecraft seems to hve show him opportunity in a neat rendering method tha serve his purpose.

To be frank I was unfair with notch, there is also evidence of notch working on a Isometric engine before playing infiniminer and getting the idea, and minecraft was also meant to be a dwarf clone. And with further investigation you see that the idea was in the air thanks to dwarf fortress. Actually a lot of people had try to explore a "better" dwarf. Minecraft came and give the conveniant format as a lot of clone mention dwarf fortess as an inspiration too. And it's not like is truly the first in the block format, there was at least 2 games about it before. So basically block + dwarf was about to happen. It's also on a trend of successful revival of voxel and procedural landscape generation. Notch was the one to fit the windows of opportunity and find the correct balance first.

[s0]

not really an obsession and "accepted" is probably the wrong word. i couldn't care less if the general public accepts games as an artform, i just want games to be on the same standard as other artforms, which also entails that we should apply the same standards to them.

[s0]

@Gil: Yeah, that's exactly why Minecraft (singleplayer Minecraft esp.) isn't a "clone" of Infiniminer. If the guy who made Fortresscraft simply used the same "inspirations" why does his game look and play exactly like Minecraft? It's ridiculous to suggest he's not trying (and succeeding) to  cash in on MC's success.

[1982]

i just want games to be on the same standard as other artforms, which also entails that we should apply the same standards to them.

What is this "same standard"? Some kind of minimum quality level, or approval by common people? Status of having videogame exhibited on Guggenheim museum?

[s0]

Part of it is not being accepting of clones and games that were obviously developed to make a quick buck or exploit players financially ("social" facebook games) and have no value beyond that. This sort of stuff is completely unacceptable (if you want to your work to be considered "good" art) in every other artform for obvious reasons, but on gaming forums we have people defending it left and right.