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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignGame designer wannabes
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muku
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« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2008, 12:20:19 PM »

Coming from a seriously math oriented perspective, the most complicated game designs I can conceive really wouldn't need much more than the basics of linear algebra which is really just a more institutionalized form of "common sense".

You lack imagination then Grin

I'm just working on something which heavily involves B-splines, which probably isn't bleeding edge math, but certainly a good step above "common sense".

Also, any sort of AI tends to involve a lot of maths. For procedural generation, stuff like Perlin noise and Markov chains tends to be immensely useful. Again, I could go on.

Saying that even the most complex game design involves only high school level math is wrong from my point of view. I'll cite DF again.

(For the record, I'm currently working on my diploma thesis in Applied Mathematics. Since you are from the field, I'll tell you that it is about the use of the boundary element method for the time-dependent simulation of wave profiles in a hydroponic test basin. Wink)
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cmspice
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« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2008, 01:43:01 PM »

Coming from a seriously math oriented perspective, the most complicated game designs I can conceive really wouldn't need much more than the basics of linear algebra which is really just a more institutionalized form of "common sense".

You lack imagination then Grin

I'm just working on something which heavily involves B-splines, which probably isn't bleeding edge math, but certainly a good step above "common sense".

Also, any sort of AI tends to involve a lot of maths. For procedural generation, stuff like Perlin noise and Markov chains tends to be immensely useful. Again, I could go on.

Saying that even the most complex game design involves only high school level math is wrong from my point of view. I'll cite DF again.

(For the record, I'm currently working on my diploma thesis in Applied Mathematics. Since you are from the field, I'll tell you that it is about the use of the boundary element method for the time-dependent simulation of wave profiles in a hydroponic test basin. Wink)

Alright, that was a hasty conclusion on my part. My minds being on nothing but 2d platformers since I played cavestory which is pretty much my niche. I also tend to think most of those physics games that keep popping out like weeds are just novelties. So I do realize there a whole lot of games out there like world of goo and gish and goo (theme: viscous fluids?) that use > high school level math but I always look at those things as math involving a game as opposed to a game involving math. Thus my usual conception of a game would not need much math from the engine up.

So that's the art side of me talking which is the side I use for game design .(which is really starting to make me wonder again why I switched out of design/media arts to major in math...)

I'm not sure what I was thinking when I said a "seriously math oriented perspective".
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increpare
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« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2008, 02:50:58 PM »

Would there be any interest in a thread looking at possibilities of having a bit of a look-see at what materials from higher-maths (other than the usual) might find their way interestingly into game-design?  I've pondered whether it might be entertaining to set one up recently, and this seems a good time to ask 'round.
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muku
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« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2008, 03:02:23 PM »

I'd definitely enjoy something like that. As I said, I'm not much of a game designer, but I can certainly chip in with math knowledge if need be.
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« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2008, 03:27:44 PM »

I'd definitely enjoy something like that. As I said, I'm not much of a game designer, but I can certainly chip in with math knowledge if need be.
I seem to be having a mind-blank at the moment, but I'll totally post some stuff tomorrow if I can think of anything.
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Tatsu
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« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2008, 09:35:12 AM »

I also tend to think most of those physics games that keep popping out like weeds are just novelties.
Well, physics are something that will naturally evolve and become more complex as processing power increases and games become easier to make. You can't deny that aside from the "novelty" physics games like Gish, solid physics can enhance most any game.

Super Mario Bros is a prime example; while it's debatable whether or not the original requires more than a high school level of math, the way they implemented the physics (momentum, destructible environments, platforms-on-pulleys...) is what made the game stand out to the point where it's still fun today. So for a game like SMB, it's really about that marriage of physics and good game design that results in solid mechanics and make a game fun to play. All of this remains true for Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy, but as you can see, it's progressively getting much more complicated.

At the same time, it's getting easier to implement a complicated physics engine without doing all the math yourself. I think we all know that there's more to making a good game than slapping on someone else's code, but I don't think an absolute understanding of this math is necessary unless you're trying to do something in a very specific manner. For example, I usually take whatever shortcuts I can find, but I learned all about elastic collision recently because I was going for a slightly different feel from the examples I found. So I personally only go out of my way to learn something if it benefits my game, but learning just for the sake of learning is cool, if that's your thing.

Sorry, my posts always end up a lot longer than I originally envision...
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2008, 01:36:45 PM »

This article is relevant to this thread:

http://scientificninja.com/advice/on-game-schools

Quote
On balance, though, game schools aren’t all bad. My goal here isn’t to give you the impression that game schools are worthless scams (although some of them are; you can usually tell because they have TV spots). My goal here is to make sure you understand what you’re getting into. It’s shocking how many people show up at DigiPen on the first day of classes, only to fail out within a year or so. It’s not because DigiPen’s curriculum is particularly difficult – it’s no more or less work than most. No, they fail because they didn’t know what they were doing. They were so enamored with the idea of making games that they couldn’t, or didn’t even try, to see DigiPen’s program for what it was: a four year computer science degree that’s very light on the computer science and very heavy on the practical application of programming and math as it relates to games. Most of those drop-outs thought they’d be studying to be game designers, sitting around all day discussing how to balance their dream MMORPG or designing levels for Counter-Strike: Source, or something. Don’t make the same mistake.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 01:45:56 PM by rinkuhero » Logged

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