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[microrignal]

Hi! This is my very first post on these boards and for that, you get an extra warm salutation. In other words: Hello community : )

So here's my situation. Around this time of the year last year, I made a smallish flash game for a pretty big company that produces games for kids mostly. It took three weeks of work. It was sort of a test to see if we could work together on the future and I sold them a non-exclusive license of the game, with the twist that their logo shall stay in a corner in all versions.

One year later, after I've done some freelancing for them, they told me they'd like to pay me to make some tweaks to the first game. After a few questions, I realized that they actually want to include the game inside their big game-universe where kids can wander around and play mini-games at specific places. For that to happen, I'd need to remove all traces of myself from the game because they want their world to be homogeneous etc, without anything that looks intrusive.

...

They didn't told me this explicitly (and frankly it puzzles me that they weren't clear yet about that), but I feel that in order to be able to integrate the game into their world that way, they'll need to actually own the intellectual property of the game, like they do for those I did as a freelancer. On the big world-game-site, there's no credit to be seen, only a mention of "© the company" so it means they should have copyright over every single part of that universe, right?

Soooo I'd really like your point of view on:

- What rights would I have to conceide?
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Am I wrong? Can they actually do that while I retain IP and the right to distribute the game myself? If I give their game a different name or something maybe? I will ask "them" of course when I get the chance.

- How much should I ask for in return?
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If they want the IP, should I just calculate the time I spent/will spend on it (I'd need two more weeks for adjustments) and multiply by a freelancing rate? More? My idea is that of course it should be more. Because it was "my" game from the start, I'm attached to it and the price must reflect that. But hey, maybe it's reasonable to ask even more than what I have in mind (6-8k ... 10k?). Or maybe it's less. The site in question is a very popular one for kids. If I remember correctly, over the first weekend during which the game was out (just not inside the main "world") it generated 200 000 views.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to figure out what is a good "freelancing rate". I do every single step of the games myself: coding, art, animation, sound fx integration. So far, let's just say that I've poorly evaluated the workload before asking for a flat rate, which left me with an equally poor hourly rate if you convert it (aimed for 20-25$/hour, things took twice the planned time...). It's clear that I'm not demanding enough, I'm just not sure to what extent.

All input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[moi]

I suppose this is the kind of question that you should ask on FGL

[microrignal]

Ah, true enough. Thanks.

[Evan Balster]

Based on speaking with other freelancers (who tell me I'm working too cheaply, and I'm working for a fair bit more than you are) you're doing your work at a very *very* low rate.

I'd start at the high end of the range you named.

[microrignal]

Thanks and yeah, not glad to say it but that's what I'm feeling too. We had a deal for a 'bundle' of two games, which is a not a good idea to start with. Not being much informed, not needing much to live and misevaluating the workload did the rest. I did not want to charge extra fees along the way, since there was no extra feature added although there were many corrections and redoing of stuff. Next time they'll pay, that's for sure. (EDIT: By which I mean, I'll learn from that and charge more, I'm not blaming them)

Just to make sure, did you mean the high range of 20-25/hour or 10k for selling the whole thing?

[bateleur]

As a freelancer it's very important to distinguish between charging for your time and selling a product. When you're charging for your time, $25 is almost certainly too low (depending on your level of experience). When selling a product however, nobody cares how long it took you. It's simply worth what you can get for it.

As far as project time estimates go, if you mess up your quote for a fixed-fee project then yes, it's easy to end up with a terrible equivalent hourly wage. That's to be avoided in future, but isn't the fault of the person you made the agreement with.

With respect to IP: if the customer hasn't asked to own the IP then I don't recommend raising the matter. Stripping your branding isn't at all the same thing as them owning the rights to the IP.

[microrignal]

Thank you for that thorough answer. And yes, it's totally my fault if the pay's been poor. I didn't mean anything else. I do like working with these people so far. By 'next time they'll pay' I really meant something more like 'next time I'll charge more'.