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[Guert]

Hello everyone!
I'm not sure if this has been covered somewhere else, if so, please eaxcuse this thread, but I'm looking for game theory ressources.

Is there a website or anything online that teaches the great lines of game deisgn theory? Like what is the game ecomics, the game mechanics, etc...

Or perhaps you know of these theory and you could explain me or guide me to a book that explains them?

Thanks alot!
Guert

[AdamAtomic]

the only book i've read that i liked on this topic is 'Rules of Play'.  Its not overly formal but does a great job of examining lots of game systems (not just video games) in a logical way.  It's inspired me a lot!

[Johan Peitz]

If you've read Rules of Play I suggest the anthology Game Design Reader which goes more into specific examples in the form of short essays/articles written by various authors.

On the web, try some of these:
http://gamestudies.org/
http://www.digra.org/dl

If these are too academic for you I suggest starting to read game design related blogs and see what they link to. A good place to start is http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/ which is a good middle ground.

[Guert]

Thanks alot for the suggestions!
I already read the "Rules of play". A very interesting book about all form of games and more. Very academic and massive tho.

Quite frankly, I,m looking for game theories, such has how to create efficent levels, how to balance your game, how do you create your game mechanics and economy...

I'm a big fan of Chris Crawford, I read most of his books and they were very inspiring, but I feel like I need something more theorical that emphasis on video game only.

It seems a bit weird, but I've been to an interview for a game designer job and the game designer asked me about those concepts (game economics and game mechanics) and I couldn't answer precisly. It kinda of made me mad at myself because it felt like I heard of this but couldn't recall anything explaining it very clearly. I read alot about game designs and I was frustrated that there were something that I missed that was so important.

 Thinking about it, where did you learn your game design theories?

Thanks!
Guert

[AdamAtomic]

I love the essays at Lost Garden too:

http://www.lostgarden.com/

He's written some VERY in-depth analyses of both successful and unsuccessful games that include mechanics and economics specifically.  Also, a great thing to do is to (even if you keep them private) write analyses of your own favorite games.

Just briefly, 'economics' usually refers to units of anything that are traded about.  E.g. in Final Fantasy it would be Gil for items.  However, it doesn't stop there.  Think about this chain: Gil for ethers, ethers for MP, MP for damage/healing.  So its not just Gil for items; in many ways you are trading Gil for straight damage/healing abilities.

'Mechanics' is generally referring to i think a collection of 3 things - human input and the immediate result, the range of interactions you can have with the game world, and NPC behavior.  It's a really, really broad subject in games, and it almost always mixes all those things together.  For example, a 'mechanic' might be the Gambits in FFXII, the fatality mini-games in God of War, or the Bowser fights in Super Mario 64.

[Also, switching to self-horn-tooting mode here, I've written some very short essays on game design on my site, http://www.adamatomic.com/, they're under the writing section.]

[Guert]

Thanks for your reply.

Those links are quite interesting (including yours ).

 I answered to the question of economics by saying that "economics of a game" is the "system" that takes care of rewards of any sorts. Y'know, points, money, whatever, you get from doing something in the game. perhaps I should've added that it could also include penalties, since those are, well, bad or negative rewards.

 After the interview, I asked him what was the ecomics of a game and he told me it's everything that a player uses in the game world, like points, money, health, power, etc...

 I forgot to ask about mechanics afterward but I answered, during the interview, that the mechanics of a game was the "systems" that interpreted the acting of the player, may it be how the game world reacts or how the enemies will behavior. The mechanics we're not code based but concept based: we're talking about how the game will react to the player. 

 If I said something that doens,t make sense, please tell me, I don't want to look like a fool again!

 Thanks again!
Guert

[CosMind]

Thinking about it, where did you learn your game design theories?

i build most of my theories by examining life and and others around me.  paying attention to the psychology of human interactions.  being wily and putting people into situations that allow you to study their interactions/reactions/etc. is probably pretty sinister, but it is by far the most valuable tool i've gained in building personal game design theories.

iven't found reading any academic books upon the subject of any value to me - as they are all focused on games that have already been created.  to me, using those frameworks tends to only promote recreating existing systems and games.

i'd suggest you find some sweet psychology books and use those to build your own theories rather than just adopting game design-specific theories conjured by others.

just a suggestion, of course 

regarding your experience in the interview, it sounds like you just weren't paged-in on terminology - not theories.  any of those books mentioned in previous replies will for surely help you with your glossary.

[Guert]

Ah great, I'm not the only one who have sinister behaviors! Investigating human behavior is something that I feel very enriching. You can tell alot more by looking at the human (how they actualy play and how they react)than at the result of their behavior (did they win, did they loose, how much rewards they got, time passed in the game world, etc). 

Quite frankly I have a philosophy that's quite similar to yours. I don't want to repeat the same thing over and over, I want to make things different. I look at alternate ways to dissect a game and try to take elements from different things and see how those elements, once isolated, affect the subject (player).

 If you ever get a hold on behaviorism theories, read them. It's quite interesting and intriguing. Behaviorism is used in the training of animals. You try to control a behavior in the subject without behing there. You "program" the subject to react like you want them to at given situations. It's not 100% precise, it sometimes feel like some sort of evil plot for dominating the world but its quite interesting and I feel like numerous elements could be used in video games (if not already).

 Still, I want to know as much as posisble about the content of current games. There is alot of knowledge enclosed in every game and extracting it is very important for myself. I always say that you need to know where you've been to know where you're going. If I don't know what makes current games good, I feel like I'll never know how to make them better or where to look for the road to the "new" game experiences.

 Thanks for replying and take care!
Guert

[AdamAtomic]

The way I look at it is if you want to be a good writer, you have to observe life and find your own voice and write something original.  But it never hurts to read other people's books, or to learn new words!

[Guert]

Couldn't have said it better. :D
In my opinion, a good designer should have a strong knowledge of the rules but at the same time, be able to use these rules in very different context in order to be original yet strong (theoricaly speaking).

Well, while we're speaking of design stuff, what's your basic design doc model? I used a couple, one from a friend who works in a game studio and the other is the Chris Taylor template. Any others worth mentionning? If I remember well, there's one template in the book written by Ernest Adams and Andrew Rollings... Anyone tried it?

[Guert]

Ugh, I hate to double post but I found this article (thanks for the tip ) that explains exactly what I wanted to know about game mechanics.
http://lostgarden.com/2006/10/what-are-game-mechanics.html
Just thought I'd let you know!

[fish]

if an interviewer ever asks you "what is fiero?", walk the fuck out of there.

game design has no unified vocabulary.
people throw fancy-sounding terminology around like there's no tomorrow.
and you can bet that everytime someone comes up witha new one, everybody else will start using it all the fucking time. if i hear another douche use the word "verbs" when talking about different mechanics, i might explode.

game design is blurry. its messy, unclear and nobody ever agrees on anything.
i have no idea what game economics are (unless we're talking about actual economies like in a MMO) and ive been doing design for years.



also, rules of play is good, of not way too big.
i suggest a theory of fun.

[CosMind]

If you ever get a hold on behaviorism theories, read them. It's quite interesting and intriguing. Behaviorism is used in the training of animals. You try to control a behavior in the subject without behing there. You "program" the subject to react like you want them to at given situations. It's not 100% precise, it sometimes feel like some sort of evil plot for dominating the world but its quite interesting and I feel like numerous elements could be used in video games (if not already).

very slick - thanks for that tip.  sounds quite intriguing, and i'll definitely be seeking the topic out in the very near future 

game design has no unified vocabulary.
people throw fancy-sounding terminology around like there's no tomorrow.
and you can bet that everytime someone comes up witha new one, everybody else will start using it all the fucking time. if i hear another douche use the word "verbs" when talking about different mechanics, i might explode.

game design is blurry. its messy, unclear and nobody ever agrees on anything.
i have no idea what game economics are (unless we're talking about actual economies like in a MMO) and ive been doing design for years.

i've been designing games professionally and as a hobby for years, too.  and i couldn't agree more.  "blue ocean", "blue sky", "flow"...  hush up.

i suggest a theory of fun.

thumbs up - what's interesting about that book is that it's not a game design theory book at all.  it is quite literally as it's titled, about theories of FUN.  what is "fun"?  what makes humans have "fun"?  a very thought-provoking and valuable read.

[Guert]

Well, I'm kinda relief to hear that there's not yet a standard terminology in video game design. I was having a really hard time trying to find basic game design rules and theories, wether from book or from the web. I found alot of topics but no general topics or basic rules and theories that is universaly accepted. Like the book "the five C's of cinematography" for the field of movie making. When I started to look for movie rules, this book always came up and numerous experts named it.

I don't have a mentor/teacher of any kind and there are no game design courses around where I live so I was starting to wonder if I was simply unable to search correctly.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who's starting to design and that's looking for guidance.

"Theory of fun" is a great book! I'm not a big reader but this one really caught me. It has a very simple and friendly approach yet it teaches a very complexe topic. Anyone can actualy pick this up and enjoy it.

 Speaking of books, anyone read the book "Games architecture and design" by Andrew Rollings and Dave Morris? I've read the one he wrote with Ernest Adams so I'm interested in buying it, I'd just like to have a bit of feedback before I do...

Thanks and take care!

[torncanvas]

Sounds like you are looking for more practical things than theoretical things.  Maybe search for game design tips and tricks?  Or game tuning?

Here's some level design stuff:

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Single-Player_Mapping_Tips
(kinda specific to FPS stuff, but there's some general info in there to glean)

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/The_Ship_Level_Design:_Tips_&_Tricks

Some general stuff:

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010427/hopson_01.htm
(a lot of vocab crap, but some practical stuff in there)

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070123/chelaru_pfv.htm
(some great tips for strategy tuning)

[Guert]

Great links!
I feel like I need every bit of information on game design as possible. Tips, tricks, academic rules, wip theories, anything.

These links are very useful. And the first essay from Gamasutra actually speaks of what I was talking of earlier on. Behavioral game design! I just gotta read this! :D

The tips for map making are also very insightful. They tell how to pace your game correctly so that the player gets a good experience out of the game.

Thanks alot for those!
Guert

[Ivan]

Someone sent me this today, and thought I haven't read it yet, it looks iteresting.

http://web.futureofthebook.org/mckenziewark/gamertheory/

[CosMind]

pile the links on:

http://theinspiracy.com/Current%20Rules%20Master%20List.htm

this is less of a theoretical essay and more of a collaborative "what have we learned" list.
basically, a conglomeration (that's still growing) of short-and-sweet principals dealing with all facets of game design that people have been learning over the years.  touches it all, mechanics design, risk/reward schedules, information design, visual design, and everything in between and beyond the boundaries.

[jwk5]

Sirlin.net Really good sign for sound information on the pros and cons of game design and competitive game playing.

[gimymblert]

Unleash the design porn:
http://www.scottkim.com/thinkinggames/index.html (still relevant for all game)
http://www.gdcvault.com/
http://www.casualconnect.org/content/content.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/category/design/
http://www.projecthorseshoe.com/ph08/ph08r5.htm
http://www.stephanebura.com/diagrams/
http://www.stephanebura.com/emotion/
http://theoryoffun.com/grammar/gdc2005.htm
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/05/column_homer_in_silicon_the_co_1.php
http://emshort.wordpress.com/how-to-play/writing-if/my-articles/conversation/ (need to browse for awesome juice)

I miss some  just what came now in my mind