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[Matthew]

The largest and most obvious bias is selecting for merit.

Paul: Popular games probably do get more attention from main judges. It's irrelevant in the juries, though, and the juries pick the finalists.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

are the juries influenced by the number of nominations a game gets? e.g. if one game is nominated by 3 judges for audio, and another game was nominated by only 1 judge for audio, would they take that into account when deciding who to nominate for audio?

[Glaiel-Gamer]

are the juries influenced by the number of nominations a game gets? e.g. if one game is nominated by 3 judges for audio, and another game was nominated by only 1 judge for audio, would they take that into account when deciding who to nominate for audio?

we are given a list of every game that was nominated even once, sorted by number of votes

it is taken into consideration but only as a general guide, juries were free to vote for whoever, other than IN GENERAL most of the nomination counts tended to coincide with the games that were good for that category anyway, especially for tech.

[Rob Lach]

To me the IGF is a bit misguided. What's happening is that for some it's the "oscars of indie games", but that really doesn't coincide with what it's suggested to be about:

We wanted to create a similar event to Sundance for independent game developers - and that's just what we've succeeded in doing with the Independent Games Festival, which has awarded hundred of thousands of dollars in cash prizes (and brought major exposure and a much higher profile) to a multitude of indie and student game developers who enter.

For some betting $100 on your game to possibly win $3000 is risk a developer might take just to get their game completed.

I'm not suggesting these games aren't deserving of the praise that one associates with the IGF (they most definitely do), but it seems like the intentions of the IGF are below the quality and presence those types of games already have. I don't think the success of FEZ or Spelunky will be dictated by a $3000 cash prize, but moreso with the publicity an IGF win will give you.

Personally I believe the IGF is trying to accomplish too much. The way I see it, there should be a competition for helping developers finish their games and keep making games, and another that awards excellence. The first competition would be for in development or non-commerical titles along with the cash prizes (which would still allow entry multiple times), while the other would be for near release games with only an award.

The film industry and the game industry (especially the indie game world) are too different to be modeling award events on each other. There is this lingering thought that games are the next step up from films, with developers in the indie and AAA world clawing for the same legitimacy films have. I think we all know that the potential of what games can do is so far surpassed what games are currently doing, and film (which is an already mature medium) will never touch the artistic influence a game will have once the medium matures.

So really, the IGF shouldn't be the "Sundance of games", as games don't need a Sundance, they need their own thing.

Take for instance my game POP which hit the Nuovo honorable mentions list. I have no intention of ever selling this game (I'll just release it for free once it's done). I entered purely on giving myself a hard deadline to work for with the potential of recognition for trying something different and if I had won the prize would have freed up the time I'd normally use freelancing (so I could pay the bills) to make games.

No one entering Sundance will be releasing their film for free, they haven't evolved past that point yet. The film industry is still stuck in pre-internet times where distribution required fat stacks (hence their massive budget dedicated to enforcing copyrights).


Ultimately though, I think the IGF will continue to adjust and evolve, absorbing grievances as they come up. The introduction of Nuovo and the juries have been steps in the right direction.

[Eldboll]

The Iconoclasts :C

[Oddball]

I just read this whole discussion, it took quite a while, and I noticed something really odd. At the start there were a few conspiracy theorists saying that there is an 'indie elite' who help each other out based on their secret clubs and close knit connections, and those that were being accused of being in this 'indie elite' saying that it's not true, there are no secret clubs and that they don't have all these insider connections.

Then about half way through the so called indie elites just went, fuck it! You're right. You got us. There are indie elite secret clubs, and connections are very important in improving your games profile, but it's not exclusive. All you have to do is take a week out and have a trip to GDC and we'll choose the indies we like to join our secret gang.

It was like the president just walked out of the Whitehouse and went "Hey guys! You know that Area 51 you're always going on about? Well that thing is full of aliens and alien tech."

I'm not really adding to the discussion, I just wanted to comment that I found the way the 'indie elite' flip-floped in the middle highly amusing

[TeeGee]

You don't have to be nominated to get a lot out of GDC.

(...)

My family is not rich.  My mother lost most of what she owned to a flood in 2008, leaved her mired in debt, and my father died of brain cancer the next year.  At the time of my first GDC I was doing a $10 per hour research job, though I had the blessing of meal center food so I was able to save up.  As of today I don't know how I'll be paying the rent at the end of this month, and I'm STILL going to GDC.

Man, while I'm sad to hear you had it rough (condolences for your father, unfortunately I know how it is to lose someone close ), you have to understand that situation of someone in the US is still vastly different from the rest of the world.

For example, you throw $10 per hour as if it's little, while here I haven't earned even that much in a high-position job. The average seems to be more around $4/h. And we're not living in the ass of the world either, just a less developed economy. I may be a serious and a somewhat successful developer, but spending a quarter of my yearly salary on going to the GDC simply for the networking, doesn't sound like a viable investment. There are also many countries poorer than mine. I don't think you see many indies from Romania, Russia or Lithuania on the GDC either. And I assure you they do exist, work just as hard, and are as talented.

Really, the relative cost/gain ratio of the GDC isn't the same for everyone or even in the same ballpark. And it doesn't have much to do with willingness (even if dedication indeed goes a long way).

[starsrift]

Edit: Also, why isn't allen banned? His posts have no actual content, just insults and trolling.

Allen's posts are colorful and offensive but also realistic and serve to ground the discussion, imho.

[Ooops]

I must stay I stand firmly behind everything that Teegee said in this thread. He speaks wisely.
I have said earlier in the past that a somehwat close circle of so-called "Indie Elite" was normal and not problematic.

However, I now see that some (certainly not all) of them are acting a bit spoiled and show little ability to place themselves in the shoes of the less fortunate (both in terms of money and success) around the world. Just because you live far away from the hype, cannot afford a $1500 trip and/or haven't met success yet does not mean you're not dedicated.

I don't speak for myself, as I consider myself fortunate enough and have not developped anything that makes me think it would be worthwile to attend IGF, but I could see the offense nonetheless.

[brog]

Its an actual investment to go even if you weren't for a contest... Its still extremely worth it for how much it costs, there is nothing else that you could spend your money on that would get you as much long term gain as you do for going to GDC once.

I went to GDC last year.  I had a nice time, but apart from being in EGW I wouldn't say I got more out of it than, say, going to TIGJamUK or BIGJam locally.  (EGW was a cool opportunity and meant I got to know some people who I wouldn't have if I'd just gone on my own.)

Also: privilege is invisible to those who have it.  Story of our times.

[st33d]

I doubt I'd get very far with my broken social skills. My OCD brain begins to shut down once a room hits a certain capacity of people.

At least on the internet it feels like no one is there.

[ANtY]

I doubt I'd get very far with my broken social skills. My OCD brain begins to shut down once a room hits a certain capacity of people.

At least on the internet it feels like no one is there.

Same, I hate meeting new ppl 

[Rob Lach]

Unfortunately there's a bit of internal politics in everything, indie games included.

[st33d]

Sooooo....

Shall we start placing wagers on who will win? 

[leonelc29]

i'm standing behind TeeGee and raising a board with writing that say "We are not rich people!"

other than that, social skill are one of the most important thing if you were to meet with random people, like what st33d said.

i think going to stuff like TIG jam might be better than GDC, as the people attend is lesser than in GDC, thus allowing better communication.

Sooooo....

Shall we start placing wagers on who will win? 

i do hope Atom Zombie Smasher or Gunpoint win at design category.

[ANtY]

I hope that Fez won't win

[dislekcia]

i'm standing behind TeeGee and raising a board with writing that say "We are not rich people!"

Um. You do realise that where I come from, posting on TIGsource makes you the indie elite that us lowly scrubs could never aspire to meet, right?

Then I actually met some people I thought would never talk to me and found out how wrong I was.

[Zack Bell]

At first, I was hoping that Fez wouldn't win because I dislike Phil's internet persona. After seeing a lot of the indiegame: the movie stuff, I wasn't as against him winning anymore. However, now that I see the finalists, I just want Spelunky to win...

[Manuel Magalhães]

I hope that Fez won't win

The impact that could have in here would be catastrophic.

[TeeGee]

I think that Fez has a high chance of winning. Despite the controversy here, it looks like a really polished and cool game.