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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignA well-balanced game, what?
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Dim_Yimma_H
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« on: July 18, 2008, 04:28:19 PM »

I've been thinking about what a "well-balanced game" means.

Game reviewers often complain that some games aren't well-balanced, that there's too much of something. Too much of something, doesn't that make the "something" a feature? Are/aren't features... good? WTF

Metal Gear Solid is a pretty good example I guess, a great game but reviewers complain there's too much story, too much talking especially using the Codec. But in my eyes, the Codec conversations are one of the game's strongest features. If you like those conversations, you probably like the game.

That forms a disrespectful question, is "well-balanced", one of the strongest arguments that many reviewers use, nothing more than a matter of taste?

Other times, especially in strategy games and beat'em ups, the teams and the fighters need to be statistically well-balanced, that's important. But I'm unsure whether a story can be unbalanced. Can it, why?

(Insert wisdom somewhere here.)
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Border
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 05:53:29 PM »

To me the word "well-balanced game" mainly bring a thing about Gameplay , the hardness of the game, the game was too easy, objective were not clear that sort of thing.
If i would need to use those term that what they meant, again what you said about reviewer doesn't surprise me and i agree about the matter of taste.
That's pretty normal that, if you don't like conversion in game and you have to review a game like planescape:torment (which if i remember correctly had the most conversation line ever!) well you may write there were too much of blah-blah in the game which make it  unbalanced.

To resume, a well balanced game represent a game were fun was constant. period

And seriously, reviewer have no taste at all. that why they got the job anyway.
they should be all burned!!! Bring the torch!!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 07:34:45 PM by Border » Logged

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Bree
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 06:54:43 PM »

The real trick with games is that, at this point, game developers use a bunch of other media (movies in particular) to convey their story. There are exceptions, such as the Half-Life games, that never break from the gameplay and actually use the inherent interactivity in a game to tell a story, but these are few and far in between. Thus, when a reviewer talks about a balance between story and game, he's really talking about the balance between gameplay and cinema.

Metal Gear Solid is one of the titles that is criticized the most for this because of its legendary number of cutscenes, and their equally legendary length. They tell a fairly decent story, but that means Metal Gear Solid's a fairly decent movie- not a fairly decent game. After all, if we bought a game, shouldn't we want more gameplay than movie? Otherwise, we're paying $60 for a glorified DVD. That's my take on it, at least.
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Dim_Yimma_H
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 02:15:42 AM »

To resume, a well balanced game represent a game were fun was constant.

Yeah Grin
And the experience is different from player to player. So in the end the player might've to be "well-balanced" to enjoy a "well-balanced" game.

Does that make a well-balanced game generic, designed to apply to as many of us as possible?

Can a game have a single very well-balanced feature, and does that make the rest of the game unbalanced? (Since there's only one strong feature.)

And seriously, reviewer have no taste at all.

Unique taste = interesting texts Tongue

Thus, when a reviewer talks about a balance between story and game, he's really talking about the balance between gameplay and cinema.

Ah that's a good point, maybe they're really talking about when a game is still a game in its right medium. Then it's difficult for a game that goes outside that medium to be well-balanced.

Games that stretch the definition of "game media" are innovative. For good or bad.

So in that way innovative games are by definition unbalanced. Until enough similar games exist to really create acceptance of that presentation.
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Klaim
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2008, 07:44:29 AM »

I would say that a well balanced game is a game where the code mecanics are efficiently exploited through game rules parametters and level design.


When a game designer feel his game is not well-balanced, it's just that he think the potential is here but not efficiently exploited, or simply not visible enough.
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increpare
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2008, 12:45:15 PM »

A lot of balancing comes into play when the player has several choices (between classes/&c.), that might be very different in terms of gameplay, but making them all rewarding choices, that people don't feel they've been conned.  Starcraft is the chief example of this, I think.  Giants did it quite well I think also (though I never played multiplayer).

Dwarf Fortress has a very interesting balance between story and gameplay, think we not?
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godsavant
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2008, 05:01:59 PM »

I suppose a game could be unbalanced if it constantly contains non-interactive media that could have been made otherwise. Lost Odyssey, for example, contained brilliant story, but required players to pause from their interactive battles and adventuring to trudge through long pages of text that didn't help them at all in terms of gameplay; Mass Effect, on the other hand, had cut-scenes up the ass, but nobody cared b/c they were fun and had direct impacts on the entailing gameplay. The latter did, however, get criticized for its tedious space elevators, which were not interactive, and moreover, not necessary.
 
I think criticism for MGS's story really did down w/ Guns of the Patriots with the implementation of the interactive cut-scenes, which allowed for different perspectives and hidden secrets and supplies; near the second half, however, it once again falls victim to rapid cutscenes for which MGS is notorious, and over which the player has no control. Considering the epic, cinema-like nature of the plot, however, I honestly can't see how they could ahve done it either way.
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Dim_Yimma_H
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2008, 12:57:21 AM »

Maybe each game determines its own balance, and in the end its up to different players to compare that with their preferred game balance.

When a game designer feel his game is not well-balanced, it's just that he think the potential is here but not efficiently exploited, or simply not visible enough.

That's probably very true. A game can only be as well-balanced as its engine allows. Also, even a perfect engine can be limited by the game concept. Some concepts may be unbalanced by definition, and the solution might be to make balance insignificant.

A lot of balancing comes into play when the player has several choices (between classes/&c.), that might be very different in terms of gameplay, but making them all rewarding choices, that people don't feel they've been conned.  Starcraft is the chief example of this, I think.

Yes, I agree about Starcraft. Every time I've believed I had come up with a good Starcraft strategy, it would turn out there was a counter-strategy.

Also, beat'em up series like Virtua Fighter seem to have characters that're more well-balanced than characters in the Tekken series, statistically when playing a lot of fights. But then again, Virtua Fighter has always had that as a feature, while Tekken has heavy features like many diverse characters, which makes it well-balanced in its own sense/in its own features.

Lost Odyssey, for example, contained brilliant story, but required players to pause from their interactive battles and adventuring to trudge through long pages of text that didn't help them at all in terms of gameplay;

Japanese RPG's are often expected to be good story-wise and game play matters less, but I've read that Lost Odyssey disappointed in that aspect. Expectations on certain balance makes any flaws more apparent.

Considering the epic, cinema-like nature of the plot, however, I honestly can't see how they could ahve done it either way.

I agree, a perfect game would maybe have to be very generic and mainstreamed. So the best with a game is if its perfect in its own sphere of features, which MGS might be.

I sometimes find it sad when comparisons are made to templates, like if the best experiences are old ones. On the other hand, that's how human perception works most effectively.
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joshg
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2008, 09:11:13 AM »

Echoing a bunch of others, but I would definitely say that "well-balanced" re: games implies a balanced game design.  If you want to say that a game doesn't have a good balance of gameplay and cutscenes, okay, but eg. this wouldn't make sense to me:

"This game has too many cutscenes to be well-balanced."

...because I would totally assume on first glance that they're trying to talk about gameplay balancing issues which has nothing to do with cutscenes.

Yes, I am a language nitpicker.
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Dim_Yimma_H
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 01:14:10 PM »

Cutscenes often try to deliver a message, or provoke a feeling. Either way, traditional balance would kind of erase messages or strong feelings. Gameplay on the other hand can be balanced to make several game rules equally strong counterparts.

Edit: With "message" I mean the subjective ones, while plain information can probably be well-balanced. Smiley
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 01:18:21 PM by Dim_Yimma_H » Logged

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