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[Golds]

So I just read this book on the history of Pixar, and it mentions how they always give the humans in their features a cartoony look to avoid the Uncanny Valley. 



And so I watched Pixar's 1988 short Tin Toy, which has a frankly disturbing looking baby in it, and I chocked it's freakiness to the Valley...  But then I thought about the dancing baby meme from the late nineties, which has a much more realistic baby, albeit dancing, and it doesn't seem disturbing at all.  Then I started thinking about movies like Square's Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, which strived for photorealistic characters, and they don't seem off-putting.

Certainly modern PC and console games pride themselves on their increasing photorealism, especially with human characters.  and so now I'm basically of the opinion that it's kind of a bunk theory.  Am I wrong?  Is this theory really John Lasseter's fault?  What does everyone else think?

Feel free to shock me with terrible cg human renders plz.

[fish]

you didnt find the dancing baby off-putting?

[Farbs]

Relying on neither evidence nor heresay, I offer this theory:
FF:Spirits Within resides part way up the human side of the uncanny valley.

And yes, the dancing baby is freakish.

[Seth]

I don't see how your examples debunk the uncanny valley, the "valley" is supposed to the repulsive area between "cute human mimic" and "convincing human mimic," where the human mimic part ceases to be cute and is yet to be convincing.  So yeah, I think FF:SW is more up the side of convincing human, as it doesn't repulse me, but it still puts me off because the characters are not so good at showing emotion.

The theory isn't that it's impossible to create a non off-putting human mimic, it's just that before you get there it gets mad uncomfortable

[Golds]

you didnt find the dancing baby off-putting?

Not compared to the Tin Toy baby.

[moi]

I don't know about the baby but I do agree it's just a bunk theory.

I think that simulacres of human will always be very difficult (impossible?) to pass for real humans because of the human brain being so good at analysing human apparence and noticing details, but I don't believe this "uncaney valley" theory per se. I don't think there is any emotional reaction involved with a simulacre of human, unless one is really dumb.
either you notice that it's a fake or not. I have never felt repulsion (except for those robots whose bodies look like prosthetic limbs for amputees)

[fish]

so, the uncanny valley is a bunch of weird babies.

 

there's a level in fez called the Uncanny Valley.

[Golds]

there's a level in fez called the Uncanny Valley.

it better have some sort of ugly baby in it.

[fish]

here's an exclusive screenshot:

[Derek]

No, but in all seriousness, I think it's a reasonable theory... you know how when you see someone who's had a bit too much plastic surgery, they look kinda off?  And it's sort of disturbing because you can't figure out why?



More generally, I believe the point is that the nearer you get to "perfection" then the harder it is to ignore imperfections.  i.e. if you look at Picasso's work in his cubist phase, you'd never notice if a guy had three nostrils instead of two, but if you look at something he did when he was still into realism, something like that would look "wrong" to you.



Final Fantasy: Spirits Within is probably more on the Uncanny Cliff rather than in the actual valley, which is why it doesn't register as a problem for you.  But then again, if you found the dancing baby to be "okay" then we may not have enough common ground for a discussion about that at all.




I think its the eyes that always end up creeping me out about these CG characters.  Or the mouths.  It seems like those are the two hardest parts to get right about the human face.



I think that Pixar baby is just ugly, though.  It's in the Ugly Valley.  That's a different place altogether.

[Türbo Bröther]

It's not a valley,

it's a quagmire.

[increpare]

I don't think there is any emotional reaction involved with a simulacre of human, unless one is really dumb.

I disagree.  People have emotional relationships with their computers, their vcr player, their ipods.  I spent a weekend with my father and his gf and some other people, who insisted on having conversations with and about their GPS nav, which they had christened Nora and have quite an amicable relationship with.

I feel compelled to tell an anecdote about a date I had.  I was pretty sure, in addition to all the talking above table, that our legs were brushing together in a rather intentional way.  At some point, I suddenly realized it was an oddly-positioned table-leg

[dmoonfire]

I think there such a thing as the uncanny valley, but I also think it is relatively subject. For me, its a bit larger than many people since I really don't like realistic looking characters at all (give me abstract, sketch NPR, or thing thing any day). For others, they can handle right up to the point.

As an average "valley", I think as technology gets more adept at realism, people's perceptions will change and it will narrow until it doesn't exist. There will always be people who think mannikins are way to freakish and people who don't see the difference between the mannikins and the humans in the moving Mannikin.

[Bree]

The Polar Express is one that a lot of people seem to mention being creeped out by. I'm having a tricky time finding a good photo to illustrate this, but a common complaint was a suspicious 'soul-less' look to the character's eyes, which in combination with the remarkably life-like models made them offputting. They felt more like puppets, or animated corpses, than 'real' people.

The other important thing is that the Uncanny Valley was originally meant for robots, such as the Actroid here:



For added fun, try watching it move.

The Uncanny Valley also works in reverse. Ever wonder why R2D2 is such a popular character? Part of it is because the audience projects a personality on something that looks absolutely nothing like a human. Since it's as far away from humans as you can probably get, the mind tries to find similarities between it and the subject. This is where we get anthropomorphism, as seen in countless Disney films.

An even more recent example of the opposite end of the Uncanny Valley would be Pixar's latest (and possibly greatest) film, Wall-E.



Now look at him, for just a split second, as a machine. It's hard, isn't it? But really, Wall-E is a robot, not with eyes, but binoculars, and little metallic hands with only two fingers. He has no mouth, no ears, no feet, he doesn't even have proper hands! But, because the animators are able to make him 'act' like a human being, the emotional response is incredibly strong, for the simple fact that he doesn't look anything like a human. You can see it right here. Same thing goes for most animated characters. 

[team_q]

Robot fish That android video lead to this robot fish video, which I thought had real realistic movement.

[Bree]

But not realistic human movement. That's the thing about the Uncanny Valley- it's all about how much an object looks like us.

[policedanceclub]

I am glad that this thread got second page, so that I dont ever have to see this again.

damn.

[team_q]

But not realistic human movement. That's the thing about the Uncanny Valley- it's all about how much an object looks like us.

I thought it was cool, not relevant.
But yeah, the uncanny valley exists, I've watched cg and got weired out by its closeness to humans.

[konjak]

There has been no moving 3D human likeness displayed close-up and/or in clear view that have ever had me fooled is all I know.

From what I understand the uncanny valley stems from a human likeness that appears more like a deceased human being moving around than a live one. Something that disturbs us. I'm not really disturbed by 3D models more than I am just not convinced.

[Bree]

But not realistic human movement. That's the thing about the Uncanny Valley- it's all about how much an object looks like us.

I thought it was cool, not relevant.
But yeah, the uncanny valley exists, I've watched cg and got weired out by its closeness to humans.

Sorry about that. As an apology, here's another awesome robo-animal video.