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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsSpaceHero Command
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happymonster
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« Reply #760 on: January 01, 2013, 01:29:18 PM »

Hmm.. do you have any suggestions for the shapes of the arrows to convey the information necessary? I think it's better than before, but not perfect when I test it.

In other news: I've added in a visual console log for temporary (per frame) logging and persistent logging. This will help debugging a bit more than just using the text log written to disc.
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Connor
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« Reply #761 on: January 01, 2013, 01:33:46 PM »

this looks good! demo?
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Firearrow games
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blitzkampfer:
https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=52009.msg1280646#msg1280646

too bad eggybooms ents are actually men in paper mache suits and they NEED to be agile
eigenbom
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« Reply #762 on: January 01, 2013, 02:47:05 PM »

Well you've already got the arrows that show the route your boy will take. You could use a similar styled arrow on the final square to show the final facing direction. But maybe its slightly different to show the different meaning.

I'm not sure what the 8 directional arrows are showing.

Also, if the coloured squares showing valid positions isn't absolutely necessary, then I'd get rid of it. If I can get the same info by moving the mouse over possible target locations then that's probably sufficient.
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happymonster
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« Reply #763 on: January 01, 2013, 03:05:49 PM »

I tried the arrow on the square to show the overall direction, but the mouse cursor gets in the way (both when over the arrow, and underneath)

The 8 directional arrows are showing the action points left over if ending a move in that direction. Grey = can't move. Red = can move only, orange = can move or fire once, green = can move or fire twice.

You do need the coloured squares otherwise you wouldn't know where the boundaries are between the different move/fire actions.

Does that make sense?
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eigenbom
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« Reply #764 on: January 01, 2013, 03:26:27 PM »

For the coloured squares, that same info is reproduced in the route arrows isn't it? The coloured square guide seems more like an option you could turn on, and even then, there could be a cleaner way to represent that, such as a green fully-coloured in area. You've got a nice clean art style but its getting messed up by the GUI imo.

As a player I might mouse-over a possible target square, and at that moment I want to know how many action points are left. You could show that by just colouring in the mouse-overed square. Furthermore, you could show the direction my unit will be facing by showing the actual unit in that square facing in the target direction.

The 8 arrows are extraneous information, you only need to colour the final square with the amount of action points left. When I change the final direction of the unit in that square you can change the square's colour.

The mouse cursor is half the size of a unit, this seems too big and it may get in the way in other places too..?

This all just boils down to whether you want to present all possible information at once, or have a more minimal GUI that requires some mouse exploration.
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happymonster
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« Reply #765 on: January 02, 2013, 12:58:25 PM »

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For the coloured squares, that same info is reproduced in the route arrows isn't it? The coloured square guide seems more like an option you could turn on, and even then, there could be a cleaner way to represent that, such as a green fully-coloured in area.

Not quite, the squares show you all the areas you can move to as well as the actions from that square. So you need some boundary unless you want the player to guess where the edges are with moving over areas of tiles. With three colours used that really means I need 3 boundaries unless you want the player to do more guessing, or trial and error with the mouse.

Quote
As a player I might mouse-over a possible target square, and at that moment I want to know how many action points are left. You could show that by just colouring in the mouse-overed square. Furthermore, you could show the direction my unit will be facing by showing the actual unit in that square facing in the target direction.

If I colour in the mouse-overed square that will only shows the action points left in that current direction. I would have to split it into 8 different squares (which is effectively what the arrow markers are) to show action points for each possible direction. I could make it so the 8 direction arrows only appear if you click in the square and then you select a final destination. However that's an extra click, and an extra process of hidden information to reveal to the player every time.

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The mouse cursor is half the size of a unit, this seems too big and it may get in the way in other places too..?

I've tried smaller mouse cursors, crosshairs and other designs and the bigger cursor seems to work better at the moment. This seems to be that it fits into the style of the game, and white seems to work better than other colours. I've moved the arrow markers further out from the centre of the moused-over square and this moves them out of the way which helps a lot.

Quote
This all just boils down to whether you want to present all possible information at once, or have a more minimal GUI that requires some mouse exploration.

I'm in favour of a more dynamic GUI that shows more information than others using more traditional multi-click actions (i.e. click on square, click on direction) to speed up turns and make the interface feel less clunky.

If anything I want to get more information in there, not less..  Well, hello there!
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eigenbom
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« Reply #766 on: January 02, 2013, 01:17:56 PM »

You don't need a multi-click interface, you just make each square contain 8 hotspots which are used to select the target position and orientation. It's still a single-click to move and orientate.

I still don't follow about the square colouring. I select a character then mouse over a square. The route is shown with the different interesting boundaries, and (depending on where the mouse is within the square) either the square or the cursor changes colour based on what action colour I have left if I had moved to that pos and faced that direction. It's equivalent information, but just presented as needed rather than all at once.

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If anything I want to get more information in there, not less..

haha, alright, i'll be quiet about minimal guis Crazy
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happymonster
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« Reply #767 on: January 02, 2013, 01:35:05 PM »

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You don't need a multi-click interface, you just make each square contain 8 hotspots which are used to select the target position and orientation. It's still a single-click to move and orientate.

Err.. That's exactly what I do now?

Quote
I still don't follow about the square colouring. I select a character then mouse over a square. The route is shown with the different interesting boundaries, and (depending on where the mouse is within the square) either the square or the cursor changes colour based on what action colour I have left if I had moved to that pos and faced that direction. It's equivalent information, but just presented as needed rather than all at once.

That's right, if you know which route you want to go in. But by displaying all the area I can show all routes for the player to decide on at the start.

We might have to disagree on this one..  Cheesy
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eigenbom
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« Reply #768 on: January 02, 2013, 02:03:23 PM »

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Err.. That's exactly what I do now?

Yeh exactly. It's the same process a player has to go through, but a more minimal UI. You said:

Quote
I'm in favour of a more dynamic GUI that shows more information than others using more traditional multi-click actions (i.e. click on square, click on direction) to speed up turns and make the interface feel less clunky.

..and I was just saying that what I was describing wasn't multi-click.

Quote
That's right, if you know which route you want to go in. But by displaying all the area I can show all routes for the player to decide on at the start.

Wah? The player can still decide at the start, but they have to mouse over things to get info. A big assumption here is that your audience has a brain and can estimate the distance to a square well enough to choose a set of possible target locations to inspect closer.

Take combat, for instance. Do you show the effects that every possible weapon will have against all visible enemies (in order to let the player decide better what to do?) Or do you let the player select a weapon and enemy and then maybe show some info? The latter is a more minimal context-sensitive UI that I'm advocating.

Evil I question all your assumptions!! Evil
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happymonster
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« Reply #769 on: January 02, 2013, 02:21:51 PM »

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A big assumption here is that your audience has a brain and can estimate the distance to a square well enough to choose a set of possible target locations to inspect closer.

This is ZombieHero Command you know.. for people without brains!!  Apoplectic

Wink
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happymonster
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« Reply #770 on: January 02, 2013, 02:30:25 PM »

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The 8 arrows are extraneous information, you only need to colour the final square with the amount of action points left. When I change the final direction of the unit in that square you can change the square's colour.

Oh, right! I think I know what you mean, I thought you meant something else.

That would work, but again I prefer more info visually available. :D

How's Moonman's GUI coming along btw?  Wink
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eigenbom
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« Reply #771 on: January 02, 2013, 03:02:30 PM »

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How's Moonman's GUI coming along btw?

Hey, we're not talking about me ... Who, Me? Cheesy
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happymonster
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« Reply #772 on: January 03, 2013, 03:01:35 PM »

What I will do, is disable the overlays and see how it looks.

I'm working on improving the control panel processes at the moment, so it's a good time to try it.
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happymonster
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« Reply #773 on: January 04, 2013, 11:47:44 AM »

I've spent the last day trying different things. I removed the coloured squares overlay and although it was much cleaner, as I thought it requires a lot more mousing around. In fact it almost felt like the game was hiding useful information from you when you moved around.

I tried making the colours very transparent, and using different shapes, solid blocks, wireframe outlines, etc.. Nothing looked very good, compared to how it was before.

So, I've darkened the colours a little and have gone back to the original approach for now..
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happymonster
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« Reply #774 on: January 04, 2013, 03:12:57 PM »

With all these new A Game a month blogs starting I've been feeling the urge to do a new quick game myself.. but.. must resist!  Epileptic

Instead, I've added support for more UI layers and pathfinding layers, which is needed internally as well as letting me show more information in the future if I need it.

Finally I've realised that by removing some redundant command icons I can fit at least 8 unit icons on the gamepanel. This means that I can merge both commands and unit icons on the same panel instead of having to flip between the two when selecting or unselecting a unit. So far it's working well.. ironically it looks similar to Space Crusade on the ST/Amiga, perhaps I should have just copied that originally!  Huh?
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eigenbom
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« Reply #775 on: January 04, 2013, 03:27:27 PM »

resistance is futile!
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happymonster
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« Reply #776 on: January 04, 2013, 03:31:08 PM »

Tongue How is this ONE MONTH game of yours coming along then...?? Wink
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eigenbom
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« Reply #777 on: January 04, 2013, 04:26:03 PM »

I'm making it for the global game jam buddy. Two birds, one game. Wink
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happymonster
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« Reply #778 on: January 08, 2013, 11:33:43 AM »

I'm changed the default zoom factor to slightly more zoomed out. I plan to add three automatic zoom factors which try to keep roughly the same map area you can see, regardless of screen size.

These will be Zoomed in (old view), Normal (new, slightly more zoomed out view), and Zoomed out (See more of the map than the other views).

In addition I'll let players chase the scaling manually, both for the smooth shape scaling and for an additional pure pixel re-size. This will let people who like the more pix-elated look still use that view.
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happymonster
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« Reply #779 on: January 08, 2013, 02:18:47 PM »

Widescreen screenshot (with a reduced scale factor) to show off the view distance :

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