next »

[pixhead]

I haven't been on TIG in a while so I don't know if this has been adressed yet, but if it hasn't im happy to bring it up - because I know im not the only one thinking it. The problem is simple: too many games are using pixel art.

To quell a few of you from the start im not saying there is anything wrong with using pixel art, but it is just that I feel that the plethora of 'retro', '16-bit', 'old school' games has turned into a bit of a gimmick. Does every indie game have to use the same cookie-cutter ideas as the last, can't we have a 2D game done in something other than pixels, do we really need to tag the indie game scene as 'retro' fanatics.

I won't say I hate pixel art; I don't. In fact the original reason I got into indie games was because of pixel art, but as time goes on I find myself resenting it more and more. I'm not saying anything is wrong with it, im saying that it has become to close to a gimmmick. Please don't take this as an attack, it is just my opinion on the current state of our scene.

What do you think about this?
Am I wrong, is there something in pixel art that I am missing?
Do you feel the same way?

[Glyph]

The reason you don't see pixel art in most mainstream games is because they're mostly all 3D. When you make a 2D game, pixel art is sorta the norm. Plus, there's a ton of different styles that can be used within the confines of the 'pixel art' tag- although if you're specifically addressing the chunky low-rez stuff, then I guess I would have to agree with you about the wealth of those.

[JasonPickering]

I spend all Day doing 3D animation for games, so being able to do Pixel art for my own games is a welcome change, and I have an easier time doing that then hand drawing any art.

[anonymous]

what are the other options?  vectors?  ascii?  scanned drawings?  photo collage?  maybe that's too indie?  Or maybe that genuinely looks like someone's slapped together school project?

[pixhead]

The reason you don't see pixel art in most mainstream games is because they're mostly all 3D. When you make a 2D game, pixel art is sorta the norm. (...)

That's half what I mean. Im not asking why we don't see 3D in mainstream games; im asking why is it the norm?

what are the other options?  vectors?  ascii?  scanned drawings?  photo collage?  maybe that's too indie?  Or maybe that genuinely looks like someone's slapped together school project?

Not if you put work into it. Isn't the main point of game art (besides making the art) working out the kinks and making it blend properly with the game - convey the information properly. If that is the goal then I don't think it would look like 'a slapped together school project.'

[DavidCaruso]

Yeah, I think there's something in pixel art you're missing.

The problem isn't people making and using pixel art, the problem is people making and using bad pixel art (usually this is combined with chunky Lego pixels and/or extremely low-res sprites, which makes it look even worse.) I still haven't seen a modern NES-aesthetic game that looks half as good as Shatterhand or Batman: Return of the Joker (pictured above), for example, and that includes professional efforts like the new Megamans (EDIT: actually Wizorb looks pretty great, but it doesn't really follow NES restrictions completely, and it's the exception not the rule.) I also think the best examples of pixel art (not necessarily only the stuff I just posted, though I think all of those shots are pretty great) look way better than the best examples of "2.5D" style, even top efforts like Gradius V or Radiant Silvergun.

[anonymous]

indies are behind the times, time to upgrade!
I don't know this is a strange concern to me.   
of all things to be concerned about in indie games.  I don't know, can you imagine, all the indies trying to reinvent the wheel, in terms of graphics?

[Elk]

What I am against at, is the ongoing trend of having minimalistic graphics just zoomed in... I miss quality in Pixelart.

[Happy Shabby Games]

I use simpler pixel art because I like it, and because I wouldn't finish a game otherwise. I work construction over 40 hours a week and have other responsibilities. It's fortunate that those of us not making our own games for a living have a cool simple style that we can work with that gets the job done.

[anonymous]

What I am against at, is the ongoing trend of having minimalistic graphics just zoomed in... I miss quality in Pixelart.

not everyone is a skilled artist or has a skilled artist on hand or can afford one.  Not only that but having something other than minimal, is a commitment, do you want to commit to a game with outstanding graphics, if it's going to be scrapped - which is the due course for many indie projects unfortunately.

edit: essentially the above.

[cynicalsandel]

Most simple pixel art is used in indie games that are free anyways. It seems like the more well known indie games that cost money (Braid, Super Meat Boy, Limbo, Aquaria, World of Goo, Machinarium, etc) don't use pixel art or the ones that do have higher quality pixel art. So, I don't see the big deal.

[noah!]

Honestly, I've seen the same thing with chiptune, and I have a reason that applies to both: It's graphical Lunchables.

It's no secret that programmers love squares. Graph paper, bounding boxes, plaid shirts, programmers love it all. And that's because, socially, they are squares. But also because grids function as a uniform, aesthetically-pleasing template. Like, if you just give 'em a blank canvas, they have no idea where to go. They've never learned art. But give 'em a grid and tell them to make a picture by filling in the blanks? Heck yes! These guys have been filling in little bubbles on tests for years now! They know how to do this!

Also, at least for people who have been indoctrinated to game-making through the indie scene, I've seen like five resources for making pixel art for every one resource for making any other form of art. That may play a role too.

(other reasons: every community has its own signature style, you pretty much need an snesboner if you want to fit in here, c'mon man blazing star is as prerendered as you can get, etc...)

[Kramlack]

I don't have to tell you all that I love low-res. Everyone already knows that. With that said, I am getting a bit tired of the minimalistic stuff (especially people who draw small things and everyone calls it 8-bit). With that said, some people work on it because it's what they like to do, myself being one of the many here that do that. I do think in a lot of cases it's a cop out answer, in fact, when I started, I did it because it was easier too, but then the restrictions really grew on me and now I absolutely love the stuff. While I can say I don't like how often it's used, I'd hardly call it a 'problem'.

@Elk: Chirst, every chance you get, you have to complain about it. Just because you spend a year making a dragon (lol), doesn't mean everyone else has to. This is a gaming forum, not a straight up pixel art forum. I mean, do you even make art for games? I think I've only seen you draw art for a game like once or twice. Stick to Pixelation or Pixeljoint.

[DavidCaruso]

c'mon man blazing star is as prerendered as you can get

Yeah there's some really serious egg on my face now for that. I haven't actually played the game yet and I thought for a second that it was just really amazingly made pixel art because of what looked to be small pixel-level details everywhere e.g. the grass and the rocks. Replace it with In The Hunt I guess (which actually prob looks even better without being prerendered.)

I can definitely understand the simplicity/programmer-art arguments but even then there are tons of decent looking pixel art styles that people can use to cut down on the art ability required without having to resort to stuff like xtreme 8x8 Minitroid lowres or narrow stick figures blown up 4x. So it feels like, well, there's actually a market for that kind of stuff, which is a bit scary to think of.

(snip)

I don't think you have to spend a year making a pixel art dragon to see that stuff like, say, Terraria is pretty bad looking in comparison to the pixel art masterpieces of the past. Enter IGN: "the 2D pixel art packs a lot of retro charm, but the SNES-era won't dazzle everyone." Meanwhile, back in the real SNES era... I think people were even calling Super Meat Boy's graphics "retro" at one point. What I think it does in the end is degrade the public (i.e. people who don't live and breathe 2D games) standards for pixel art. Doesn't help that the market for it's been shifted almost entirely to handhelds and cellphones either (it's seriously a crime that someone like Henk Nieborg is stuck doing licensed games), probably due in large part to fixed resolution LCDs.

[Kramlack]

c'mon man blazing star is as prerendered as you can get

Yeah there's some really serious egg on my face now for that. I haven't actually played the game yet and I thought for a second that it was just really amazingly made pixel art because of what looked to be small pixel-level details everywhere e.g. the grass and the rocks. Replace it with In The Hunt I guess (which actually prob looks even better without being prerendered.)

I can definitely understand the simplicity/programmer-art arguments but even then there are tons of decent looking pixel art styles that people can use to cut down on the art ability required without having to resort to stuff like xtreme 8x8 Minitroid lowres or narrow stick figures blown up 4x. So it feels like, well, there's actually a market for that kind of stuff, which is a bit scary to think of.

(snip)

I don't think you have to spend a year making a pixel art dragon to see that stuff like, say, Terraria is pretty bad looking in comparison to the pixel art masterpieces of the past. Enter IGN: "the 2D pixel art packs a lot of retro charm, but the SNES-era won't dazzle everyone." Meanwhile, back in the real SNES era... I think people were even calling Super Meat Boy's graphics "retro" at one point. What I think it does in the end is degrade the public (i.e. people who don't live and breathe 2D games) standards for pixel art. Doesn't help that the market for it's been shifted almost entirely to handhelds and cellphones either (it's seriously a crime that someone like Henk Nieborg is stuck doing licensed games), probably due in large part to fixed resolution LCDs.

We're on the same page. It's not that I'm saying people shouldn't do better pixel art, just that not everyone who does low-res or minimalistic stuff can be lumped into the category of lazy like I'm seeing a lot of around here.

Bad looking games get shit on for being bad looking. Using your example, there was a big discussion at the start of the Terraria thread where myself and a few others were saying how bad it looked (and that it had almost completely ripped Final Fantasy sprites). Granted it still did well and a lot of people liked it, it wasn't able to escape this criticism under the 'guise' of being retro. At least not to myself and others.

The original poster said that indies are labelled with 'retro' because we do it a lot. Okay? So then we deserve that label, don't we? If you're not happy about it, try to change it on your own from the inside. Make a 3D game or lovely looking 2D game like Owlboy, I don't know. I just don't think something as big as a label can change by calling a group of people people out on it.

[moi]

what's funny is that back in the time, a big proportion of that so called pixel art (on consoles,arcade,etc...) was actually digitized palettized drawings or 3D renders. They just used the tech available to them.
Nowadays, indie devs have a cargo cult for pixel art artifacts that aren't necessary anymore.

[unsilentwill]

The only problem I see with pixel love is the sheer number of new people who sign up saying, "I want to make a game! How do I do pixel art?" rather than actually learning the fundamentals of art and then choosing what style or medium they work best in. Reminds me of webcomics and Penny-Arcade or illustration and Frazetta.

Pixel platformers aren't a problem, it's just an (general) default for the majority of indie newfolk who aren't thinking super creatively yet. The issue with labels is not from the outside, but when indies try to label themselves.

Also its probably a big reason why most first projects fail. Fluidly animating a well designed sprite is extremely difficult even for someone who studies for years. Taking that on as a beginner can only lead to be disappointed in your work.

@moi Cargo cult is an amazing way to describe it. Spot on.

[moi]

what are the other options?  vectors?  ascii?  scanned drawings?  photo collage?  maybe that's too indie?  Or maybe that genuinely looks like someone's slapped together school project?

the modern option should be painted. See Lurk stuff for example

[Elk]

@Elk: Chirst, every chance you get, you have to complain about it. Just because you spend a year making a dragon (lol), doesn't mean everyone else has to. This is a gaming forum, not a straight up pixel art forum. I mean, do you even make art for games? I think I've only seen you draw art for a game like once or twice. Stick to Pixelation or Pixeljoint.

This thread is a critique to pixelart being used in games, and I'm somewhat defending my point. What would be wrong with that? I stated my point of view, that I believe the trend keeps heading in a very monotone way. Surely there are other types that provide variety.
Time management is very important, and the guy that posted before that even with good pixelart your game could be crap... well, you just need to plan things out really thoughoutly and for that you need to have patience and alot of concentration... When I'm playing a game, I'm not just "wow this looks pretty!" as in the visual impression is pleasing, but also the sense behind everything, psychological aspects and a lot more.

Most games I'm working on are NDA longterm, and even on completion I wouldn't post stuff about that, because its my job, and not really myself. Because you have to stick to certain styles.
My scenery stuff that I spend some time on, on the other hand, is showcased accordingly.
Everyone for their own.

Also, who are you to judge me like that?
Get your facts straight, calm down and be a little more objective.
No reason to get all conservative...

[cynicalsandel]

I do like pixel art, but I also enjoy 3D and vector art in my games.

I think one reason I want to use pixel art is because my favorite games are JRPGs, and those are the games I want to make. I automatically associate JRPG with SNES-style pixel art. So, to me, I can't even picture how to make a 3D or vector art JRPG. It doesn't work in my head. However, if I were to make an action game, I might associate it with 3D instead. I can only speak for myself though. I'm a little odd.

Art is tough though. I could easily understand why some programmers would stick with simplistic pixel art. I'm currently in a 3D class, and while one doesn't have to shade (which is nice), getting anatomy right is a pain. Maybe it's just me though. Art might come easier to other folks.