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[Zack Bell]

Hey guys, thanks to Aaron (Angelbait), the level design for the demo version is fully fleshed out!

Right now I am tweaking the rooms to my liking (difficulty-wise) and trying to make a nice difficulty curve that feels natural to me.

After that we can tile the rooms and make them look pretty. Then it's testing time!

[Zack Bell]

It's 1:18 where I live, and I have school until about 9:00 tonight. However, I should be posting 8 new levels tonight and this will technically be the "first build/demo".

Be sure to check here for updates. 

[Armageddon]

 never got a PM.

[Zack Bell]

WHAT  

I totally sent one to everyone at the same time, but kept getting errors. Maybe that's why only one person replied  

Grrr...well like I said a few posts back: If the game is well-accepted, I want to double or triple the size of the map. Your job would be much easier now that you can see how everything is supposed to work.

Let me know if you still want to make some levels!  



EDIT: Also guys, I don't have tiles for the spike hazards in the 8 levels I was going to post tonight. Would you prefer to see them with a few bits of placeholder art or should I hold off until Herror gets me spikes tomorrow?

[Franklin's Ghost]

Although I'd love to play it now I think it's better to hold off till you have the spike art.

[Zack Bell]

Yeah, that's kinda what I was leaning towards. I just felt bad for promising something and then not delivering. 

I think that I also need to move onto something other than this default save/load system because the lighting doesn't reinitialize when you load the game... 

[Zack Bell]

do these stand out enough? (sorry for the poop blurred image)

AND THIS

[Ashkin]

Yes. But make them either closer to black or a brighter red so they contrast with the grass a little more.

[herror]

.png 

Also, I'm having trouble saving-loading with surfaces. I think its about deleting the system, or saving the surface on an external file or idk. :S
If you find something tell me

[rek]

do these stand out enough? (sorry for the poop blurred image)

They look more like longer blades of grass than spikes, due to the similar colour scheme as the grass/ceiling junk.

[Zack Bell]

Here's the first official build. You will only have access to the demo version of the cave area.

Arrows & Z is all that you will need. Also, note that the white platforms at the entrance to each room are save points. Press 'UP' to save your progress. The first and last rooms are half-finished because they are the transition rooms between areas.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29279751/Games/CAVE_DEMO.exe

[Ashkin]

THIS IS HARD AS BALLS.
I really didn't expect the game to be a difficult platformer- more atmospheric. But I'm okay with this! Didn't quite get frustrated, but some areas were pretty hard. I got stuck/gave up after dying a bunch on the jump up right, walljump left, fly under spikes, land on island, jump right, walljump to tiny wall with spike on top/bottom, etc.
The spike collisions seem kind of imprecise- which is definitely detrimental in a precise game like this. Consider implementing pixel-perfect collision?

[Zack Bell]

FEEDBACK.  

Thanks, man. Yeah, the collision masks of the spikes are the shape of the spike-cluster, but then shrunk slightly, if that makes sense. I felt that pixel-perfect was actually harder. Right now, if you avoid the sprite, you should have no worries with accidentally dying (I think). Let me know if there are specific areas that need tweaking!

And this is the second area. Probabaly about the average difficulty. I admit that the second to last room is "HARD AS BALLS".

EDIT: It will also help when we implement a death animation of some kind.  

[Ashkin]

Let me know if there are specific areas that need tweaking!

Specifically, some places where spikes are on top of a wall that you slide on, momentum carries you up and the spikes kill you while you're still on the wall. It feels wrong to me, somehow.

[Zack Bell]

Oh, gotcha. That's really because you're holding the direction towards the spikes while on the wall. In most case, if you let go of all keys, you can slide right along the side of them.

But I understand your point and my example might not always be the case. I can work around that in a few spots. 

[Happy Shabby Games]

I just played for about 20 minutes and got frustrated with it in a good way. The level design ramps up the difficulty pretty well and makes it feel like its my fault when I die. The character movement speed and the controls feel tight this time around. The spikes just look like long grass and need to be a bit more distinct. Other than that, great start!

I'm guessing those yellow platforms are going to be check points?

[Ashkin]

Oh yeah, also: The first checkpoint didn't work. The others did, though.
Also also: Maybe the spikes could be a yellow-ish colour to set them apart. I don't know, just something different from the purples/reds/greens around it.

[Zack Bell]

Thanks, man!

Yes, those are save points. I forgot that you found the demo on Twitter so you didn't see my explanation, haha.

I'm thinking that we will add red tips to the spikes (FROM THE BLOOD OF PREVIOUS TRAVELERS lol) or something like that to make them more distinct.

EDIT: Didn't see Ashkin's post. I might try just making them bright white like plain sonic spikes. Then add red tips. Something brighter. We'll see.  

And did you make sure that the checkpoint's alpha changed? When the transparency changes, that means that it saved. I haven't had that issue yet  

[Udderdude]

I just gave it a try, my feedback ..

The save states after every screen make me feel like each level should just be a single screen, and get rid of the save points altogether.

Right at the start it's possible to run really fast past the save point and into the water and never see what happened.

The spikes are difficult to tell from the grass as they're very similar colors.  Make them white and stick out more.

The difficulty is all over the place.  Some parts were easy enough to clear on one attempt, others took several (mostly due to the controls)

A lot of the challenge of the game came from the sloppy controls that move way too fast and have a ridiculous amount of inertia.  Any kind of precision felt really difficult.  You should really consider toning down the inertia and the maximum run speed, which is really a pain to control.

[Zack Bell]

Hey, thanks for the feedback.

The game, if expanded upon, will be more of an open-world and non-linear. That is the reason for the save points. I do agree with that room though. I don't like how you can die before saving. I'll put a block there or make the distance to the water longer.

I really don't agree with the control problems though  

Most others have said that they like the controls. I think that some people just aren't going to like them. Same goes for Meatboy. Some people absolutely love it to death and some people wish they had never tried to play it.

EDIT: I didn't mean to sound like I was hating on your comments. I just don't think that there is any viable solution to the max run speed and the inertia. It's what makes the level design work. The high horizontal speed is needed to complete the jumping puzzles without the extremely exaggerated floaty-ness of Meatboy.