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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralRon paul
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #560 on: February 16, 2012, 05:08:21 PM »

thank god for lobbyists
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #561 on: February 16, 2012, 05:11:12 PM »

CattleTech 2057

After the death of Emperor Ron paul II, Iowa wages high tech robotic warfare on the rest of the Federated States to reinstate corn subsidies
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #562 on: February 16, 2012, 05:15:01 PM »

god can you even fucking imagine how cool the metal gear games would be if instead of some metal fatigue godzilla shit the robots were all screaming "google ron paul"
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SirNiko
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« Reply #563 on: February 16, 2012, 05:30:45 PM »

We play games to escape reality, Joe. Seriously.
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #564 on: May 07, 2012, 05:46:12 AM »





Ro-on paul
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #565 on: May 07, 2012, 05:50:39 AM »

that singer is remarkably close to the original song

but speaking of ron paul songs, the best one is still this one:



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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #566 on: May 07, 2012, 05:58:33 AM »

oh wait, it actually *is* the original guy

apparently he's a rp supporter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Paige
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #567 on: May 07, 2012, 06:19:20 AM »

oh wait, it actually *is* the original guy

apparently he's a rp supporter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Paige
jhahahahaha
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Capntastic
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« Reply #568 on: May 07, 2012, 02:19:41 PM »

What a world what a world
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #569 on: May 07, 2012, 05:56:38 PM »

pon raul
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emacs
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« Reply #570 on: May 07, 2012, 06:02:02 PM »

nor laup
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crowe
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« Reply #571 on: May 07, 2012, 06:03:00 PM »

ayn rand told me to vote for ron paul and she's never been wrong about anything, including literature
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Faust06
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« Reply #572 on: May 07, 2012, 08:31:42 PM »

I quite like his stance on some issues, but I have the impression he'd do more harm than good. Going back to the gold standard is insane (though I don't think he would pull that off anyway), and paving the way for corporate tyranny is definitely not what the country would need right about now. He might say he's anti-cronyism, but a fully deregulated system would lead to just that. The absolutist type of principles of Libertarianism may not hold up well in practice; a consequential approach, which we've honed through trial and error, is probably best (but we tend to be guided by principle more than results). The thing is some individual freedoms blatantly violate the freedoms of others, we just don't all acknowledge the violation.. keeping a balance whilst maximizing individual freedoms as much as possible would be a strategy I can stand behind.
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crowe
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« Reply #573 on: May 08, 2012, 01:51:10 AM »

who is john galt

he is ron paul vote for him 2012
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #574 on: May 08, 2012, 05:44:42 AM »

saying he'd go back to the gold standard is a misunderstanding of his platform. he never said he'd go back to the gold standard during his presidency; the president doesn't have that kind of power anyway. that's congress's job

he also never said he favors going back to the gold standard. he says he favors competing currencies. right now, using gold as money is illegal, using anything but the legal tender of the US is illegal. there are people who have been arrested for using gold to buy things from one another. all he said is that he wants to *legalize* competing currencies, so that people have the right to decide what they use as money. if they want to use gold, silver, shells, potato chips, etc., then they'd have the right to do so, they wouldn't be forced to use the US dollar, the way they are now. so we'd still continue to use the US dollar, it's just that using other things would no longer be a crime. i don't think not putting people in jail for using things other than money to pay each other with would do all that much harm

it's really strange that people have all these strange beliefs about RP just based on hearsay or his crazy supporters or whatever; if you'd read his platform i think you'd be surprised. a ron paul supporter is actually the *worst* source of information about ron paul

also regarding corporate "tyranny", the only thing that allows that to happen right now is that the government-economics connection. corporations lobby the gov for laws. those laws are passed, and corporations gain an unfair advantage. it goes way beyond cronyism. weapons manufacturers lobby gov to start wars. pharmaceutical companies lobby gov to change the entire industry of medicine to favor them, using entities like the FDA. health insurance companies lobbied *for* (not against) "obamacare", which forces people to buy health insurance from them. the media industries lobby for stronger copyright laws, and gain power there. (these are just examples, there are millions of these)

so the entire apparatus of the government operates as an extension of corporate power, even though the constitution says the gov shall have nothing to do with things like that. the gov is a branch of the corporations, it currently gives them everything that they want. so basically if you reduce the power of corporations to lobby and control government, you remove corporate tyranny. and RP favors removing the power of corporations to lobby and control gov -- not through the usual indirect means (by campaign finance reform) but by a more direct means: by making it illegal for the government to pass any law that influences the economy (which is what all the corporations are after anyway). the corporations would still be allowed to donate to campaigns in the ideal RP world, but that lobbying would all be for nothing, because the gov would no longer have any power to help them do anything at all, it'd be limited to the point where it's powerless to aid them
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 06:19:51 AM by Paul Eres » Logged

Superb Joe
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« Reply #575 on: May 08, 2012, 06:08:39 AM »

also regarding corporate "tyranny", the only thing that allows that to happen right now is that the government-economics connection. corporations lobby the gov for laws. those laws are passed, and corporations gain an unfair advantage. it goes way beyond cronyism. weapons manufacturers lobby gov to start wars. pharmaceutical companies lobby gov to change the entire industry of medicine to favor them, using entities like the FDA. health insurance companies lobbied *for* (not against) "obamacare", which forces people to buy health insurance from them. the media industries lobby for stronger copyright laws, and gain power there. (these are just examples, there are millions of these)
it's disgusting how little you can buy a politician for, the sums exchanged for what the company gets in return are pitiful
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Faust06
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« Reply #576 on: May 08, 2012, 09:34:05 AM »

Quote
he also never said he favors going back to the gold standard. he says he favors competing currencies.

Gold never stopped being an asset, but "competing currencies" on the whole is a ridiculous idea. In any case the U.S. would never give up the strength of their "safe haven" reserve currency throughout the world. Even if he doesn't favor a "hard" gold standard, gold as legal tender in business transactions can be problematic. As late as the Nixon years, the US ran out of gold holding up their promise of $35 to an ounce for global trade. I don't have the impression that an existing criminalization is getting in the way of people trading items without currency. It's not a solution to anything, as far as I'm concerned.

Quote
so basically if you reduce the power of corporations to lobby and control government, you remove corporate tyranny.

Deregulation does the opposite. It fortifies corporate control, and decimates public influence over practices, such as those with external costs. As far as I can tell Ron Paul supports lobbying from any group; more finance will mean more influence, always. It's naive to suppose corporations would have less power with LESS restriction. It's no mystery why the financial sector of the U.S. was an integral component of the recession, compared to the way Canada's banking system fared under Mark Carney.

My opinion is that Ron Paul is a proponent of naive libertarianism: he believes in liberty because of a principle, not because of the consequences. He believes corporations should have the liberty to lobby the government, even though, effectively, corporate lobbying erodes the liberties of individual Americans. He believes in free-market health care, even though in practice it's been disastrous for America. Of course, you can't really make "lobbying" itself illegal, just limit financial transactions associate with it, which I suppose is what RP is purporting. But, the problem isn't the lobbying itself, it's an imbalance of lobbying resources that favors a limited range of interest groups. NOT going to change under RP.

Some liberties violate others. When the government protects your rights-even if they are only your "natural rights," or only "negative rights"-it is restricting someone else's freedom. There are libertarians concerned about the freedoms of individuals more than the freedoms of corporations, and whose actions/beliefs are governed by consequences, not by blind principles. Ron Paul is not that kind of libertarian.

He is a man with high-minded principles which sound nice, but are a formula for disaster; because
A. There are market failures and externalities.
B. Eliminating the Federal Reserve is a bad idea. It is needed to control inflation and implement a monetary policy to stimulate the economy. Although, I admit more transparency is desirable for the Federal Reserve.
C. Non-interventionism will open a power vacuum that political actors will exploit, a result likely to disrupt international commerce at our expense.

In my opinion, Political Realists are the only ones who should be allowed to run the executive branch of a country. I am very firm on this point because I have seen idealists fuck things up one too many times. On this issue, there can just be no compromise.

Also, he wants to eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency and thinks global warming is a hoax. Oh yes, and gun control.. minimal gun control has been so damn good for the country, hasn't it?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 09:48:48 AM by Faust06 » Logged
crowe
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« Reply #577 on: May 08, 2012, 09:44:55 AM »

also regarding corporate "tyranny", the only thing that allows that to happen right now is that the government-economics connection. corporations lobby the gov for laws. those laws are passed, and corporations gain an unfair advantage. it goes way beyond cronyism. weapons manufacturers lobby gov to start wars. pharmaceutical companies lobby gov to change the entire industry of medicine to favor them, using entities like the FDA. health insurance companies lobbied *for* (not against) "obamacare", which forces people to buy health insurance from them. the media industries lobby for stronger copyright laws, and gain power there. (these are just examples, there are millions of these)
it's disgusting how little you can buy a politician for, the sums exchanged for what the company gets in return are pitiful

under ron paul we will be able to establish a free market graft system meaning better prices and higher profits for all involved
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emacs
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« Reply #578 on: May 08, 2012, 04:59:26 PM »

ron paul jones is greatest bassist ever
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #579 on: May 08, 2012, 06:17:28 PM »

paul you do realize that businesses can accept bartering, right? it's just up to the individual business.
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