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October 24, 2021, 05:14:31 PM

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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsEnvironmental Station Alpha [Big update coming 10/18!]
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Author Topic: Environmental Station Alpha [Big update coming 10/18!]  (Read 185597 times)
Painting
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« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2012, 04:27:10 PM »

You pulled it off. That's totally readable.
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BomberTREE
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« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2012, 04:32:28 PM »

I prefer the backround over nothing, It's nice to see your surroundings  Grin
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Franklin's Ghost
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« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2012, 04:49:03 PM »

Yeah that background completely works, not to distracting and adds to the atmosphere.
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Hempuli‽
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« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2012, 07:09:20 AM »

I'd need your opinion on something: What is the general consensus about single-use 'powerups' a lá Zelda games, that are needed in a couple very specific situations and virtually nowhere else? My initial plan for the game's powerups was like this:

3 weapon powerups (+ additional ammunition for one of them)
4 or so powerups that enhance your movement (like that hookshot seen earlier)
3-4 more specific powerups (upgraded map and the likes)
20 or so collectables that don't give you abilities but work as special 100% playthrough bonuses

Then there're a couple situations where you need to raise your 'access level' to get past a gate.
  However, I'm quite torn between wanting to add more powerups to the game, adding more secret rooms for these powerups but also having no ideas with what these powerups would be. Therefore I started thinking if there should be a couple less useful powerups that are needed to pass other similar 'gates', but in a cooler way than with the lame 'access levels'. Should I do this, or add more optional collectables?
  Or could the 'powerups' instead be items not useful but instead just 'interesting' in some way? Such as some sort of an enemy catalogue where you can see information on the enemies you've met, or databanks hinting at deeper structures of the game's story (as if there were any, duh)?

Also, can there be such thing as 'Too Many Bosses'?
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Terrorbuns
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« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2012, 07:26:01 AM »

NEVER ENOUGH BOSSES I SAY!!!

I would say, perhaps just simply finding a control panel to open the access gates would be cool enough. (Also an excuse for MORE BOSSES).
I would be ok with having just like enemy files and story logs (hopefully akin to the Space Pirate Logs from Metroid Prime, those were the best!) or whatever.

I think it is really all about execution!
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FK in the Coffee
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« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2012, 07:26:07 AM »

I'd need your opinion on something: What is the general consensus about single-use 'powerups' a lá Zelda games, that are needed in a couple very specific situations and virtually nowhere else? My initial plan for the game's powerups was like this:
Might be good if the powerups won't really be effective in the context of any other situation.  Were you kind of thinking something like the placement of powerups in Super Mario Galaxy?

Quote
Also, can there be such thing as 'Too Many Bosses'?

NEVER.
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Franklin's Ghost
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« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2012, 07:52:37 AM »

Think the one off powerups to get through certain situations is a good thing in a game like this. You can't always have an object that does everything, so having certain ones for specific tasks seems more realistic and makes the game more challenging. I like the idea  Smiley
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Hempuli‽
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« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2012, 08:19:17 AM »

Might be good if the powerups won't really be effective in the context of any other situation.  Were you kind of thinking something like the placement of powerups in Super Mario Galaxy?

I meant stuff like virtually almost every single powerup in modern Zelda games, such as the spinning top or the statue-animating staff in Twilight Princess, or the weird upside-down rod and the minish cap in Minish Cap. All those were used for 1-2 types of puzzles and almost nowhere else (though it must be said that the spinning top doubled as a really cool way of attacking enemies!) I personally dislike the concept, but then again it's impossible to make every powerup super-significant.
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Lizardheim
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« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2012, 08:43:45 AM »

I'd need your opinion on something: What is the general consensus about single-use 'powerups' a lá Zelda games, that are needed in a couple very specific situations and virtually nowhere else? My initial plan for the game's powerups was like this:

3 weapon powerups (+ additional ammunition for one of them)
4 or so powerups that enhance your movement (like that hookshot seen earlier)
3-4 more specific powerups (upgraded map and the likes)
20 or so collectables that don't give you abilities but work as special 100% playthrough bonuses

Then there're a couple situations where you need to raise your 'access level' to get past a gate.
  However, I'm quite torn between wanting to add more powerups to the game, adding more secret rooms for these powerups but also having no ideas with what these powerups would be. Therefore I started thinking if there should be a couple less useful powerups that are needed to pass other similar 'gates', but in a cooler way than with the lame 'access levels'. Should I do this, or add more optional collectables?
  Or could the 'powerups' instead be items not useful but instead just 'interesting' in some way? Such as some sort of an enemy catalogue where you can see information on the enemies you've met, or databanks hinting at deeper structures of the game's story (as if there were any, duh)?

Also, can there be such thing as 'Too Many Bosses'?
Add stupid stuff like missiles that split up in midair into multiple shots.
Useful for speedruns but since you get so few it's pretty much useless for other stuff.
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Ant
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« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2012, 09:11:53 AM »

I meant stuff like virtually almost every single powerup in modern Zelda games, such as the spinning top or the statue-animating staff in Twilight Princess, or the weird upside-down rod and the minish cap in Minish Cap. All those were used for 1-2 types of puzzles and almost nowhere else (though it must be said that the spinning top doubled as a really cool way of attacking enemies!) I personally dislike the concept, but then again it's impossible to make every powerup super-significant.

I'm not a fan of this approach as it just clutters up the power-ups and can be easily avoided by just having world objects have certain effects when touched. I also prefer the "finding a control panel to open the access gates" approach as well since it gives the player a goal to get to, instead of say just giving him a keycard or 'special' power and him having no idea which door it opens. One effect I've always really liked is when the player activates a control panel the screen shifts to where the door opens which you see before shifting back to the play. It just gives a nice prod to the player rather than him wandering around randomly, though of course there has to be bonuses for fully exploring an area.
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lasttea999
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« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2012, 09:19:44 AM »

You might try designing items the player will need throughout the game, then designing the puzzles to fit those, rather than the other way around?

Also, the enemy catalogue system sounds awesome. What's keeping you from including all distinct, cool items you can think of?
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mokesmoe
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« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2012, 10:51:04 AM »

I think powerups that aren't that useful can still be good if you make them cool enough in the part where you do use them. The spinner from TP was one of my favourite items, because it was so fun to use. That one big room in the sand dungeon that had a whole bunch of spinner rails was my favourite part of the game.

Also, making non fighting items able to damage enemies in a very difficult to use way is fun too. Talking about TP again, if you equipped the iron boots and rolled into an enemy, you would kill it. I had beaten the game long before I even realized that was possible.

And make any one-use items still usable in other areas, even if they suck. (eg. not the dominion rod.)


I need to stop talking about Twilight Princess.
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Hempuli‽
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« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2012, 01:19:40 PM »

You might try designing items the player will need throughout the game, then designing the puzzles to fit those, rather than the other way around?

Also, the enemy catalogue system sounds awesome. What's keeping you from including all distinct, cool items you can think of?

I don't want to repeat the past mistake of having 5+ actively-used action keys, and also many of them cover the same subject in different ways (i.e. how to reach a place that was out of reach earlier).

Mokesmoe: I think TP is a great example because it did have both the Spinning Top, an example of an interesting one-shot item and Dominion Rod, an example of an awful one-shot item.
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Xion
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« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2012, 01:31:22 PM »

if you equipped the iron boots and rolled into an enemy, you would kill it. I had beaten the game long before I even realized that was possible.
whaaaat!


hemlipu, regarding question yours:
You might try simply integrating the 'one-use' items into the area(s) where they are needed, rather than in the player character itself? For instance instead of giving the player a weapon that controls sentinel type beings, of which there are only two in the game, just put the item in the areas with the sentinel beings and disallow the player from leaving with it. Or integrate its functionality with another already-existing and useful item?

I suppose the preferred approach would simply be to do as mokesmoe said though, and make them either fun to use even when they're useless or somehow useful outside their designed context.
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oyog
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« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2012, 02:11:54 PM »

OhmygoshOhmygoshOhmygosh I LOVE science fiction games!

Tears of joy.

 Tears of Joy
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mokesmoe
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« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2012, 05:57:34 PM »

I was rolling around with the iron boots because it looked really silly how link uses the normal roll animation but barely moves. Then a slime popped out of the ground and I was like "I'm gonna roll into that slime." I did, and it died. It had me laughing for like a minute straight.

Back on topic:
Upgrades to your existing items is a good way to make "keys" not feel like one-use items. Like an upgrade that lets your grappling hook connect to surfaces that it couldn't before. It's just a key to any areas with those surfaces, but it doesn't fell like it because you use it all the time. Also, upgrades don't clutter up your inventory/inputs. OOT longshot is a good example of this.

Not all upgrades have to keys either, they can be two items put together to save space and stop redundancy. The Hook Beetle from Skyward sword is a great example of this. The dual clawshots are kinda half this and half 'key-like'.

And don't use collectibles that do nothing for 100%. You should make them health/ammo increases or something similar. They act as 100% fodder and aren't super useful individually, but when a player sees one he'll go "Hey, I want to get that." Also, since they're just 100% fodder make them really small. Notice how for Zelda games they give you full heart containers for beating bosses but just pieces of heart for exploring and collecting extra items.
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JasonPickering
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« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2012, 06:01:27 PM »

for the collectibles you could do something like the secret seashells in zelda links awakening. there were like 25 on the island and if you collected 20, you got a stronger sword.
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mokesmoe
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« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2012, 06:07:36 PM »

But don't make any of them permanently missable like in Link's Awakening.
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SundownKid
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« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2012, 06:18:48 PM »

Wow this is amazing. If being unoriginal means being like Metroid Fusion, then I'm all for it. Big Laff

Collectibles can totally be data discs, it would give an interesting slant to the game, similar to how they were used in Mega Man Zero.

Alternatively, you could literally have a scanner that you could stop and use instead of objects lying about. Sort of like Metroid Prime in 2D, but the scan spots could have a little radar to show when there are some in the area.
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JackMenhorn
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« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2012, 06:58:49 PM »


If I had my midi controller/synth with me I'd ask if you needed music or sound fx or somethin.

I have my midi controller/synth with me.  If you're wondering.
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