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[xix]

I like to think that games represent fun, without feeling the need to prove themselves to all of the stuffy suits and artistes of the world who would deign to judge them.

Taste evolves. I'm hoping one day that I will stop loving the games I liked in childhood and merely appreciate them as stepping stones to something great.

[shinygerbil]

I looked at this thread, I read the first paragraph or so, and before I clicked on the link I thought:

Grand Theft Auto III.

Just because you don't like it and it sells well and it's MODERN, doesn't mean it can't be influential. I detest the damn game, but I can't deny its influence on (and by) mainstream culture. Rockstar know how to tap into pop culture, and they're reaping the reward.

I mean, there are posters up in my cinema where you normally find posters of movies. Posters with a huge "IV" emblazoned across the front, and a URL for the trailer for GTAIV at the bottom. They're everywhere. There's no denying that younger people who are not aware of NES games (or older Atari/Spectrum/whatever games - i'm sure kids these days think Nintendo were the first) will see GTA as something of an important game.

Apart from that, I would say that those games which non-gamers have heard of can definitely be considered as important in some way. It's one thing for a game to be pretty much universally admired in the gaming world, and quite another for the entire world to stop and take notice.

-Pokemon (even the creators spelt "pokemans" wrong, however)
-Mortal Kombat (blood, gore, mainstream attention)
-Gran Turismo (I'm not sure why I include this, it just feels right..)
-World of Warcraft (the only reason there aren't more clones out there is because it costs money!)
-Half-Life (the original - gave birth to Counter-Strike amongst other things. Paved the way for Valve's success with HL2 and the Steam system. Admittedly, these things would have happened anyway, but they happened with Half-Life.)
-The Sims (another of those games which broke the non-gamer barrier, even though it's all gone down the drain with recent "iterations")

Those are *some* games (not a complete list, just the first to spring to mind) that I feel have helped games become an acceptable thing for people to be into - not just in the gaming community, but in circles where before, games and gamers were considered childish or a waste of money. Back in the day, when I used to play on my dad's Atari 800XL, games were a kind of embarrassing hobby for kids. If you were trying to "be cool" and impress people, you hid your Master System away. You didn't bust some fat tunes out of your car in San Andreas and shoot some cops.

Games which have been awesome within gaming circles (define "gaming circles" here as just about anyone who picked up a pad and thought "oo, I like this, I gotta get me one of those") are more of the kind of Super Mario Bros variety people all seem to like here, but I really see a lot of them as just stepping stones now. I admit, Sonic and Mario are well known to the world in general, and they may not have been surpassed in terms of sheer design and gameplay, and their contribution to the world of gaming is enormous, but how far back do we go? My favourite games tend to be ones which have simple, 80's or 90's gameplay, but with technology from right now. Something like, say, a modern Castlevania for the DS; it doesn't feel restricted by technology like an old Mario or Sonic game did.

Games today are a far cry from games back then. When I played games like Rebound and Rescue on Fractalus on the Atari 800, I was wooed by the pseudo-3D-ness of it all. But if someone had shown me GTA or WoW, well, what a shock that would have been. So what if this is irrelevant in a couple of years? These last few years have, for me, been a turning point in the games industry. From XBOX and its "hardcore gamer" attitude to Wii and its "fun for all the family" attitude, today is just as important as 20 years ago in the gaming world.

Well, that's about 10 times longer than it needed to be. My apologies! 

[Derek]

GTAIII deserves to be up there, but not number 1!  It's obvious GTAIII has also had a great impact on gaming since it came out, but it's not obvious (to me, at least) that in 20 years' time it will have had the same impact that Mario did up until this point.

I dunno, it's like comparing Beethoven to Britney Spears for me, in terms of influence.  That's a bit of a stretch, but you get my point.

[shinygerbil]

I get your point entirely I just think that if a list is going to be compiled at around this time, then it's no surprise to see GTA featured heavily, because it's recent and relevant. And it just happened to pop into my head first!

I'm not sure where it'll stand in 20 years' time, because I'm not sure where games will be in 20 years' time (I seem to remember reading somewhere recently that we're due another market crash, apparently; my thoughts on the matter are "O RLY"). While its influence may not be as great or lasting as Mario, I'd wager that it'll still be remembered as very influential.

Or perhaps gaming will "regress" to a more simple but accomplished form, and we'll all be playing 2D platformers again

[Anthony Flack]

I think this is already happening.

[Dustin Gunn]

I like how Halo is influential because of "recharging health" when it directly took that feature from Jurassic Park: Trespasser, which DOES deserve a spot on that list. It's influenced almost every huge FPS since its release:

Halo
FarCry
Half Life 2
Condemned
King Kong
Call of Duty 2
Red Steel (Not sure on this one but it's pretty damn similar in ways)

Not to mention pioneering dynamic sound generation, dynamic texturing, bump mapping, large open spaces, level of detail, inverse kinematics for animations, complete immersion, etc etc.

[Shabadage]

I saw Dune II on here, so I'm gonna fire this game back at it "Battletech: Crescent Hawks Revenge".

Pre-dated Dune 2 by about a year, from the same Devs (Westwood).  Focused on commanding up to a company of Mechs (That's 12 or 3 lances), had dynamic mission features (Let that Locust escape in Scenario 1?  Now it's back with friends), and was real-time.  There's pretty much no question that it inspired some of the gameplay in Dune II.  Unfortunately, it was held back by the computers of the times, and uses a grid based movement system.  It also included waypoints, something that took ages to come back to RTS games.

It's also the game that the MechCommander series (More 1 than 2) was based off; gameplay wise.

[Arne]

Herzog Zwei predated Dune II aswell. Not sure about its influence though.

Influential can mean many things. Maybe an unpopular game inspired a very popular game, which, since popular means money, spawned a lot of imitators. Also, game concepts mutate slowly, progressively, and pretty much everything can cross breed, so it's hard to put your finger down anywhere.

It becomes an excercise in finding the game which added the most to the gene pool  and/or was the most successful in spreading its genes. Maybe we could also include games that revitalize old sleeping genes.

Outside games, Star Trek, Star Wars and Doctor Who had a lot of influence. In 198x there were Tie Fighters, Enterprises and Daleks in nearly every sci-fi game. Dungeons & Dragons probably influenced a lot of role playing games too.


Many of the games which I wanted to be influential never became so, or atleast they didn't pass on the traits which I liked.

[Shabadage]

Outside of a few bad screenshots, I've never had any experience with Herzog Zwei.  Any links would be helpful.

BT: CHR on the other hand, is one of the 3 games I still keep my Dos Box around for (As in ancient computer, not emulator).  The others are System Shock and Moo2.  I'd call System Shock an influential game, but not overly so (unfortunately, imagine the FPS's we could have had if it had been as popular as Doom; we had to wait for Half-Life to make atmosphere "mainstream" though).  Moo2 didn't really matter by the time it came out, there were hundreds of 4x games by that point, Moo2 just happened to be the best (IMO).

Crescent Hawks Inception (another Westwood game, and RPG this time) hasn't aged nearly as well though.

Telnet with any number of MUD servers really do deserve a place on that list; but unfortunately, Telnet isn't really a game, but MUDs have had tremendous influence in the industry.

-Half-life 2, for being the first game to do physics right.

Also, I don't think you can put Doom and Quake on the same list, as much as we all might want to.  It's redundant.  I guess I could let QuakeWorld slide though.

Not really, the two games were great for VERY varying reasons.  Quake was the thing that sent modders abso-freaking-apeshit.  It was also the game that introduced most FPSer's into the true 3rd dimension.  It was among the first to support 3d Acceleration.  Team Fortress!  While FPS online play was still in it's infancy, someone had the awesome idea to introduce classes for a more team based experience.  This decisions has obviously been a winning one.

Doom introduced the FPS to a large, large audience; while it's easily argued that Ultima Underworld or Wolf3d were the most groundbreaking; the people who played them were a drop in the bucket compared to the millions upon millions that STILL play Doom.  And of course, it was the old "Universal Scapegoat" before GTA3 hit the scene (GTA1 if you're in Brazil).

[fish]

most influencial games ever:

5- Brute Force
4- Billy hatcher and the giant egg
3- REALmyst
2- B.O.B
1- Halo 3

[Shabadage]

Just wondering how B.O.B. ended up on your list?  I played the game, and enjoyed it; but to me it was just another 16-bit platformer in the sea of them avaliable at the time.  What aspects are you referring to?

[Icedemon]

alright, this isn't really a list lol, but here's some that have been forgotten, or downplayed in my opinion (not necessarily MOST influential, but VERY influential, honorable mention kinda thing)

1.Chrono Trigger (It dates pretty far back there, and gameplay and all around wise, its one of my top 5 favorites of all time)

2.Metal Gear Solid (you STILL can't find gameplay like that ANYWHERE else)

3. The old Lucas Arts Adevnture games (MONKEY ISLAND, FULL THROTTLE, the dig, those games helped open the computer gaming industry)

4.The Crus'n series (for noobs, those racing arcade games that always said... you know,  CRUISIIINNG lol... they helped shape racing games as they are today)

5. Either dig-dug or gauntlet legends or hydro thunder... RANDOM i know lol, but all 3 influential in their own ways...

[Arne]

Herzog Zwei. Splitscreen. Each player controls a Ship/Mecha transformer which is also a drop ship used when placing units. It has limited fuel in fly mode. If it runs out of fuel or get destroyed by enemy fire, it simply respawns at homebase after a brief delay.

The player can't build bases or buildings, but there are two main bases and smaller capturable bases around the map. You capture bases by sneaking infantry into them. Each base can build units, refuel the ship, and also gives resources for construction. Units are built by hovering over a base with the ship then going into a build menu (which also has a mini map and some strategic data).

The units has different orders. You give orders when building, but you can also pick up units with the ship and reprogram them. The orders are the usual stuff, Guard, Patrol, Attack enemy main base, Capture mini base, etc. The Ship is pretty much your mouse cursor.

The units run out of fuel aswell, so you either have to fly them halfway to the enemy base, or capture bases along the way to the enemy base and build the units in those bases. You can't really micromanage all that much due to the limitations of the player ship logistics.

The ship can help out in battle aswell, either as ship or as mecha. Most ground units can't shoot on the flying ship. In mecha mode you can duke out with the tanks and stuff. The player is a super unit of sorts, and can be used to turn the tides of battle, but doing so takes precious time away from construction and management.

Edit:

[shinygerbil]

2.Metal Gear Solid (you STILL can't find gameplay like that ANYWHERE else)

Hehe, not to be pedantic, but if it's infuential, surely it wouldn't be so unique..?

I also forgot to mention Pole Position. The king of racers. :D
And Gauntlet is an excellent choice.
Hmm, how about Duck Hunt? Whenever I mention the word "NES"to any of my friends, the first thing I get back is "oh, yeah, I remember Duck Hunt, that was cooool!"
One last game is, well, not so much of a game, but the FIFA series of football (soccer) games always used to be a benchmark for general gaming skill among many of my peers. (As a result, I was always awarded fairly high gaming accolades )

[Shabadage]

Were there any lightgun games before the days of Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley?

[ravuya]

Yeah, the Odyssey was the first game system to have a light-gun. Wikipedia says the tech was in arcades as early as 1936(!)

Unfortunately if you pointed it at a light bulb and pulled the trigger, you broke the gun on the Odyssey.

[Shabadage]

Unfortunately if you pointed it at a light bulb and pulled the trigger, you broke the gun on the Odyssey.

Lol, that's priceless.

[ravuya]

I actually have no idea why it broke, or ever met anyone to confirm it. I suspect there was some sort of photoreceptor that became active when you pulled the trigger, and the light from putting it up next to a lightbulb was so intense that it burned out the receptor.

I miss home light-guns. I guess the Wii is the closest we'll be able to get them now that we have wacky LCD panels and everything for our TVs.

[Anthony Flack]

I'm hoping to buy an NTSC-compatable CRT TV when I get back to New Zealand, purely because I have 2 Dreamcast guns and 2 Saturn guns and 2 Playstation guns, and I want to still be able to play House of the Dead and Virtua Cop and Point Blank when I feel like it. And when I find a friend who might also feel like it.

[Shabadage]

I actually have no idea why it broke, or ever met anyone to confirm it. I suspect there was some sort of photoreceptor that became active when you pulled the trigger, and the light from putting it up next to a lightbulb was so intense that it burned out the receptor.

I miss home light-guns. I guess the Wii is the closest we'll be able to get them now that we have wacky LCD panels and everything for our TVs.

Oh yeah, it's already starting to bring the light-gun styled games back.  If Capcom would make Umbrella Chronicles Zapper-compatible, it'd be awesome.  Hell, an FPS with 2 Zappers would be even cooler (Use the top mounted Analogs to move and look because as of yet, FPS controls on the Wii are iffy at best.  Here's hoping Prime 3 has something better.)

Does anyone know if the Wii-Mote can function as a Zapper in VC games?  I wouldn't mind playing Hogan's Alley with accurate gun.