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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsDungeon Dashers - Fast Paced Turn Based Dungeon Crawling [GREENLIT]
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #220 on: September 01, 2012, 07:52:58 AM »

Day 245
* Did stat and attribute design for items and enemies
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #221 on: September 04, 2012, 08:26:11 AM »

Day 248
* Implemented new stats for heros, equipment and enemies
* Fixed bug with level end portals being too close to one another
* Fixed bugs with the draw order of gates
* Changed gate behaviour so that they exist "between tiles" instead of occupying an entire tile themselves.
* Added Minotaur
* Added Rabbit Warrior (any guesses for which indie game this pays homage to?)

New Minotaur and Rabbit sprites are done by Chris Pariano who has also done all of the equipment art so far as well.



If you haven't seen it already, upvote and favourite Dungeon Dashers on Steam Greenlight!
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Bandreus
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« Reply #222 on: September 04, 2012, 08:34:38 AM »

RUN! Those overgrown rabbits are everywhere  Hand Clap
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #223 on: September 04, 2012, 07:06:28 PM »

RUN! Those overgrown rabbits are everywhere  Hand Clap

Nicely phrased Grin
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #224 on: September 05, 2012, 06:04:51 AM »

Day 249
* Implemented Reach skill for Knight (attack two spaces in a row in one direction)
* Implemented Cleave skill for Knight (attack three spaces perpendicular to the player's direction)
* Implemented Guard skill for Knight (50% physical damage resist for 3 attacks)
* Implemented Critical Hits (enemies take more damage when you hit them in the back)

I was happy with the progress I made today. I added a fair few new skills, and already the game feels much more strategic. With more skills you have the opportunity to make more smart choices in combat. In addition, the critical hit system makes you think about where and how you want to hit an enemy, rather than just hitting them front on every time.

Here's the cleave attack in progress, being used to smash some boxes.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 06:09:59 AM by JigxorAndy » Logged

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dek
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« Reply #225 on: September 05, 2012, 06:11:01 AM »

You know I love this!
And stop making me want to make dungeon crawlers.  Who, Me?
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #226 on: September 05, 2012, 06:12:35 AM »

You know I love this!
And stop making me want to make dungeon crawlers.  Who, Me?

Stop making me want to make platformers!  Wink
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AmazingJas
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« Reply #227 on: September 05, 2012, 07:47:39 PM »

Love how it's coming together, well done.
Can I request that here is at least an option to display health bars all the time?
Perfect project for IOS btw, hope that comes to fruition.
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #228 on: September 05, 2012, 07:51:07 PM »

Love how it's coming together, well done.
Can I request that here is at least an option to display health bars all the time?
Perfect project for IOS btw, hope that comes to fruition.

The health bars are something that need to be done soon. I might even tackle them today, thanks for reminding me. The UI stuff is still WIP so I need to do a bit of design on that. I'm thinking that the heroes' health will be displayed with healthbars at all time, and enemies will show their health for a short time after receiving damage.
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« Reply #229 on: September 06, 2012, 01:04:07 AM »

Love how it's coming together, well done.
Can I request that here is at least an option to display health bars all the time?
Perfect project for IOS btw, hope that comes to fruition.

The health bars are something that need to be done soon. I might even tackle them today, thanks for reminding me. The UI stuff is still WIP so I need to do a bit of design on that. I'm thinking that the heroes' health will be displayed with healthbars at all time, and enemies will show their health for a short time after receiving damage.

Just have an option display/hide health bars. Also, an ingame hotkey to toggle the health bars on/off would come in handy
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rebmeM tsetaL
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« Reply #230 on: September 06, 2012, 03:32:07 AM »



Awesome pixels, but it's bad idea to use smooth shadows.
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #231 on: September 06, 2012, 08:00:05 AM »

Awesome pixels, but it's bad idea to use smooth shadows.

There's an option to turn off the lighting effects so that there are no smooth shadows. This option is available for pixel purists, as I understand that having smooth shadows (and "too many" colours) can take away from some of the artistic qualities of pixel art. In the current build you just press F6 to toggle it on and off.
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #232 on: September 06, 2012, 08:37:18 AM »

Day 250
* Implemented Twisting Backstab skill for Rogue (Increases Critical Hit damage by 200% for one turn)
* Implemented Headshot skill for Elf (Guaranteed critical hit for next attack)
* Implemented Bloodpact skill for Rogue (Convert 20 HP into 10 AP)
* Implemented Exploding arrow skill for Elf (Similar to fireball)
* Implemented Magic Net skill for Elf (Shoots a net that immobilizes and enemy for 2 turns)
* Implemented Lord of Deception skill for Rogue (Makes you invisible to enemies for one turn at the cost of setting your HP to 10. Enemies can still attack you if they accidentally walk into you, but they will not target you. This is useful if you simply need to cheat death for a turn and you have somewhere to hide.)
* Added stats to equipment selection screen (can now see your stats for each character loadout)

I managed to accomplish a fair bit today which I am happy with. I had a couple of game developer friends over for a "productivity jam" where we were all working on our separate projects, using the Pomodoro technique to manage our time. It worked out well and we all got a lot done. I'd definitely like to do it again in the future.

I found that the skills I implemented today further increased the strategic choices for each hero. Now it's really fun to blink behind an enemy, buff your critical hit damage and take him out. Using Lord of Deception was fun too. I can imagine some levels where it would be fun to use and outwit enemies. Perhaps a wall of 20 safely guarded Goblin Archers that you're able to sneak past, undetected?

I did find however that the Elf's skills were less interesting. I didn't realise it at the time of (quick) design, but after implementation, her skills felt quite similar to the Wizard's. I might need to rethink some of her skills and tweak them to make them more unique.

I'm also not entirely sure how to do the skills for the ranged characters either. Currently shooting a ranged weapon is a skill on its own (since melee combat is simply walking into an enemy). Perhaps the Wizard and Elf should have four skills available? Or perhaps having to choose a low cost skill to use is part of the strategy. Maybe you'd rather tank out your Wizard with skills that cost more action points but can't be used as frequently? I'll have to playtest.

This image has the lighting effects turned off (besides dropshadows which could be replaced with hard shadows in this mode) - to show rebmeM tsetaL what it's like without them. The Rogue is using Lord of Deception to hide from enemies.



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« Reply #233 on: September 06, 2012, 11:13:21 AM »

You may want to try implementing ranged attacks as free-skills (ie they do not count towards the skill-cap when selecting your hero's skills) with a low AP cost.

Ranged attack would be slightly more AP-consuming than normal melee attacks, which in turn could make kiting way less efficient as a strategy. This might be a welcome consequence or not.
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #234 on: September 06, 2012, 11:03:58 PM »

You may want to try implementing ranged attacks as free-skills (ie they do not count towards the skill-cap when selecting your hero's skills) with a low AP cost.

Ranged attack would be slightly more AP-consuming than normal melee attacks, which in turn could make kiting way less efficient as a strategy. This might be a welcome consequence or not.

A free-skill might be the way to go, however I'm concerned how it will affect the in game UI and the player's understanding. It may be confusing for some heroes to have 3 skills and others to have 4.

And what sort of attack should range heroes do when they walk into an enemy? Does it automatically select that "free skill"? Or does it just do some kind of melee attack that does the same damage as that free skill?
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« Reply #235 on: September 07, 2012, 02:26:20 AM »

You may want to try implementing ranged attacks as free-skills (ie they do not count towards the skill-cap when selecting your hero's skills) with a low AP cost.

Ranged attack would be slightly more AP-consuming than normal melee attacks, which in turn could make kiting way less efficient as a strategy. This might be a welcome consequence or not.

A free-skill might be the way to go, however I'm concerned how it will affect the in game UI and the player's understanding. It may be confusing for some heroes to have 3 skills and others to have 4.

And what sort of attack should range heroes do when they walk into an enemy? Does it automatically select that "free skill"? Or does it just do some kind of melee attack that does the same damage as that free skill?

If consistency of UI is a big concern to you, you might as well add a free "melee attack" skill to melee classes. The melee attack would still be automatically issued when bumping on enemies for ease-of-use purposes.

The second point, depends. If you want ranged characters to need to take the distance from enemies all the times, you make their melee attack way less effective. An elf/archer might use the bow itself to strike a foe, which would result in less damage then shooting an arrow. Some strategy games go as far as denying ranged attacks when in melee range. Also, some of those games usually introduce a "Point-blank shot" skill, which allows for a (more powerful) ranged attack to be used when in melee range combat only.

On the other hand, some other games do not introduce that level of complexity, letting ranged characters use their attacks regardless of them being in close-quarters fights or not.

It's really up to the kind of design you're striking for. If you're not sure about this, you might as well want to try both approaches and see which one works best for you.

Also, I've read you're having a bit of a hard time making the Elf and Wizard feel different from a mechanics point of view. I'll just give you a few thoughts to think about.
- Archers and Wizards both usually make for good DPS classes in most games. The Archer being the one of the two who is more about being swift (high mobility and dodging incoming attacks a lot), while the Wizard is generally more frail (slower, less agile, less armor) and needs to use her magic to make up for that.
- Archer's skills usually have only limited CC capabilities. Ie, a Crippling Shot (arrow in the knee) which slows down the targeted enemy. Other skills usually rely on dealing direct damage, like a "Take Aim" skill (can't attack this turn but makes next shot to the designed target way more powerful), Double/Triple Shot (Fires multiple, less powerful arrows, possibly at different targets), Sniping Arrow (much greater range to attack foes from far away in exchange for a higher AP cost), and so on.
- Wizard's skill usually are much more varied. They are the masters of AoE and CC skills. Ice Storm skill (AoE attack, less powerful than a fireball but also inflicts slow on targets), various kind of rays (hitting enemies in a stright line), Immobilize/Sleep/Stun/Petrify spell used to disable a target for a number of turns, some kind of Magic Armor skill to help the Wizard survive more easily. Often times though (especially in strategy games), Wizards can also directly control/alter the playing-ground, using skills like firewalls, creating slowing tiles (via spider webs, vines or the like) and so on. Wizards might at times also be able to use buff/debuff spells.

All in all, you just need to think more about what kind of roles your classes are supposed to fill. Hope this helps.
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #236 on: September 08, 2012, 07:43:17 AM »

Some strategy games go as far as denying ranged attacks when in melee range. Also, some of those games usually introduce a "Point-blank shot" skill, which allows for a (more powerful) ranged attack to be used when in melee range combat only.

...

It's really up to the kind of design you're striking for. If you're not sure about this, you might as well want to try both approaches and see which one works best for you.
I might see how a minimum distance would affect the gameplay. It might slow it down a bit, but it's worth exploring.

Quote
Also, I've read you're having a bit of a hard time making the Elf and Wizard feel different from a mechanics point of view. I'll just give you a few thoughts to think about.

...

All in all, you just need to think more about what kind of roles your classes are supposed to fill. Hope this helps.

Your suggestions are extremely helpful! I actually have many of the skills planned that you have suggested. One problem is since there is a Rogue character, it takes a lot of the "mobility" skills that a fast character like the high-elf would normally have.

I realised that any sort of move such as "take aim" shot, isn't as interesting in Dungeon Dashers as it might be in other games. For example if you can "charge up" an attack for 10AP and shoot it for another 5AP, then its damage has to be at least as strong as the three normal attacks you could have done in that same 15AP. If it is stronger, then you wouldn't use the 15 normal attacks very often at all, unless you needed to take out lots of small weak targets instead of focusing one. I added this skill already in the form of a "headshot" skill.

I just realised that some kind of AP reducing skill would be cool for one character though - basically what you mentioned above as a "slow".
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« Reply #237 on: September 08, 2012, 08:19:17 AM »

Your suggestions are extremely helpful! I actually have many of the skills planned that you have suggested. One problem is since there is a Rogue character, it takes a lot of the "mobility" skills that a fast character like the high-elf would normally have.
Glad I can help. I do see the concern with 2 very much mobile characters overlapping a bit, but I do think it could work (iteration and play-testing being key in striking the right balance). Ie, Rogue using mobility to get into good position for backstabbing (critical hits) while Elf needing it to keep the distance/getting out of bad spots/positioning to snipe enemies from afar. Again, all which matters is 1) how you want classes to feel/be played 2) if play testing yields good feedback.

I realised that any sort of move such as "take aim" shot, isn't as interesting in Dungeon Dashers as it might be in other games. For example if you can "charge up" an attack for 10AP and shoot it for another 5AP, then its damage has to be at least as strong as the three normal attacks you could have done in that same 15AP. If it is stronger, then you wouldn't use the 15 normal attacks very often at all, unless you needed to take out lots of small weak targets instead of focusing one. I added this skill already in the form of a "headshot" skill.
Aw, I totally forgot you can freely dump all of your APs into attacks in DD (or am I wrong am I?). Do keep in mind my reasoning is pretty much generic, so you need to adapt general concepts to fit your game's mechanics.

I just realised that some kind of AP reducing skill would be cool for one character though - basically what you mentioned above as a "slow".

Take this a personal opinion only, but I would definitely try and incorporate as many mechanics which deal with controlling foes and the battlefield itself as I can.

Skills which knock back enemies by a tile or two might be a good fit for the Knight. Pushing an enemy into a damage-dealing tile like a pit, lava, spikes, whatever? FUN!

The Wizard might use a spell to change the nature of tiles (AP-reducing tiles, damage-dealing tiles, stone-walls-tile setc). These kind of spells might/should be used in conjunction with other skills to promote good strategy, cooperation between players of different classes, emergent gameplay.

You can think of all kinds of cool skills which have a focus with controlling enemies or the map. A LOT of strategy and action RPGs often use these, so you can easily search for inspiration as well.

Definitely avoid focusing too much on skills which only revolve around dealing damage, as that would make for repetitive gameplay and would also hinder more varied strategies.

I would also advice grating similar skills to enemies. Opponent which just walks to you and swing/shot their weapon are a boring bunch of stats behind fancy pixels, but stuff quickly become way more interesting as you give them a trick or two.
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JigxorAndy
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« Reply #238 on: September 08, 2012, 08:41:52 AM »

Aw, I totally forgot you can freely dump all of your APs into attacks in DD (or am I wrong am I?). Do keep in mind my reasoning is pretty much generic, so you need to adapt general concepts to fit your game's mechanics.
Yeah you can use all your AP on multiple attacks in a row. The first system put in let you have 1 attack per turn and X movement points. It's much faster and more fun to just let the player keep hitting until they run out. If you try to attack an enemy when you have less than 5AP it will still attack, but it will be a weaker attack as a percentage of the AP you have left. e.g. 2AP left = 2/5 times as strong as a normal attack.

Take this a personal opinion only, but I would definitely try and incorporate as many mechanics which deal with controlling foes and the battlefield itself as I can.

Skills which knock back enemies by a tile or two might be a good fit for the Knight. Pushing an enemy into a damage-dealing tile like a pit, lava, spikes, whatever? FUN!
Skills which can move enemies around are definitely fun ideas! I'd like to do some of those too. There are some problems when moving lots of enemies at once (which tile do they land on? What happens when they are pushed into walls, etc.) But all simple things which can be figured out and made consistent.


The Wizard might use a spell to change the nature of tiles (AP-reducing tiles, damage-dealing tiles, stone-walls-tile setc). These kind of spells might/should be used in conjunction with other skills to promote good strategy, cooperation between players of different classes, emergent gameplay.
Perhaps some kind of "traps" that could be laid down? Placing a poison snare on a floor tile that activates when an enemy walks over it? And temporary walls, like you mentioned, which die after 3 hits from an enemy.

Definitely avoid focusing too much on skills which only revolve around dealing damage, as that would make for repetitive gameplay and would also hinder more varied strategies.
I agree! I think the Rogue is going to be fun to play and he will have some pretty diverse non-damage dealing skills.

I would also advice grating similar skills to enemies. Opponent which just walks to you and swing/shot their weapon are a boring bunch of stats behind fancy pixels, but stuff quickly become way more interesting as you give them a trick or two.
I'd like there to be a fair few unique enemies with unique skills which are more than simply damaging the player. If the player can get stunned/slowed/confused/poisoned/etc. then it will bring out a lot more strategic choices for which enemy should be killed first.


Thank you very much for the super great discussion so far. All of this really jumpstarts a whole bunch of ideas in my head. Feature creep!
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« Reply #239 on: September 08, 2012, 09:35:03 AM »

Skills which can move enemies around are definitely fun ideas! I'd like to do some of those too. There are some problems when moving lots of enemies at once (which tile do they land on? What happens when they are pushed into walls, etc.) But all simple things which can be figured out and made consistent.

Be careful, as skills which can move lots of enemies at the same time can be hard to balance for. Still something you might want to experiment with I assume.

But anyways, pushing enemies in a straight line would be trivial, and I can easily see them taking additional damage when being pushed onto a wall (see How holy strikes work in Red Rogue).

Perhaps some kind of "traps" that could be laid down? Placing a poison snare on a floor tile that activates when an enemy walks over it? And temporary walls, like you mentioned, which die after 3 hits from an enemy.
I can definitely see the Rogue laying down traps for monsters to accidentally step onto or fellow players to push them into.

Thank you very much for the super great discussion so far. All of this really jumpstarts a whole bunch of ideas in my head. Feature creep!

Glad I can help in any way!
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