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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralStarcraft Motherfucking Two
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Arne
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« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2007, 01:49:45 PM »

I think several RTS games have had artificial restrictions like only-one-at-a-time units. Maybe CnC:TibSun had it? Ah yes, GDI "Mammoth Mk. II".

Of course in TA and Herzog Zwei you kinda were the super unit.

I'd argue that there hasn't been much innovation in the RTS genre. The ideas have been there all along (and are thus not really 'new'), but it's only recently we've been able to do some of the stuff. They're more like 'recently implemented or polished' rather than new.
See pretty pathetic list:
http://archive.gamespy.com/top10/january01/rtsinnovation/

Maybe it's semantics, but when I think of innovation I think of surprise and minds being baffled. Maybe this kind of innovation doesn't exist though.


I've been playing Herzog Zwei recently. I'ts often credited as being the 'first' RTS game. I'm sure it was just an increment of something earlier though. However, it is surprisingly feature packed.

There's land and sea units (and air including the player ship).
Units need Ammo and Fuel, which means you need to keep supply lines running (using a supply truck, or you can refuel and repair at base).
Tanks have turrets which turn.
The Defense turrets have double weapon systems, land and anti air.
A destroyed tank might leave surviving crew.
You control the game via a commander which is a morphing land-air unit, which also can work as a dropship for unit deployment.
The units can drive under building layers/roofs.
Infantry can capture bases.
Some 6 different orders, including Patrol/Circle area, Guard, Guard&Intercept.
There's 8 different maps, each with an unique terrain style and layout, such as rivers, islands, barriers.
Terrain matters to the movement of the units. There's deadly lava, an abyss units can fall into, tar pits slowing units down, slippery ice.
Play splitscreen or widescreen, against a computer or a friend, or just watch two computers duke out Smiley

Maybe it was DuneII which introduced construction of buildings and tech trees.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 01:54:34 PM by Arne » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2007, 01:52:17 PM »

You are being pretty ignorant. Blizzard has been hemorrhaging talent. Blizzard is a fantastic company that turns young game developers into game design machines. Not many people at Blizzard who want to make new things are stuck at Blizzard rehashing the same games.

As I said, look for products from high profile developers. Follow the old Diablo development team to Guild Wars and Hellgate London. Those are the talented guys you are talking about that want to make new things. Blizzard is stuck with the responsibility of making games Blizzard games. That artists stay on to make some money before moving on is their choice. Seriously, get real with the game industry. "Innovation" isn't something that comes because it's good in and of itself, it comes because its economically viable.
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« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2007, 02:23:39 PM »

xix, who are you replying to? Shinji16?

Blizzard are currently regarded as the one top game developer that always deliver top notch games. If a game isn't good enough it won't be released, that's just a fact.

At the same time it's true that they make similar games but that's what we want them to do. We want Blizzard to do what they do best and we want Rockstar to do what they do best. Sega was Sega and Konami was Konami. The same goes for consoles, we expect Nintendo to do Nintedo stuff and ps2 to crank out Singstar and Guitar Hero.

Well that's what most people think right now imho. Predictability.
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« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2007, 05:05:11 PM »

I'm not sure they have the talent to be original; sure, they have a lot of talent to polish old games and innovate them, but do they really have the talent required to make something totally original? I think those are two different kinds of talent.

Also, If a company releases 10 or 20 games a year, it has room to be experimental. But Blizzard releases about 1 game per year, so it can't take that risk. If I were them I'd release more games than they currently do, but the reason their games are so polished is because they only focus on about one a year. Nintendo can do more experimental titles because it has smaller teams that focus on a dozen or so games a year. I think that's probably the better approach, but you can't have it both ways: they can't maintain the kind of polish they have now if they did experimental games.
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« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2007, 07:02:13 PM »

Yeah, I was replying to shinji.

It's just that responding on an internet forum makes it so easy to gloss over the details and bitch about anything without a real basis. If anyone really wanted to innovate in the RTS genre, they would. Of all companies, Blizzard has been very generous to its employees by allowing them to go off and do their own projects without pressuring them into staying to create the same game over and over (hello Mr. Kojima).
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« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2007, 10:51:30 PM »

Of all companies, Blizzard has been very generous to its employees by allowing them to go off and do their own projects without pressuring them into staying to create the same game over and over (hello Mr. Kojima).

Hahaha.  Back in my day, we called that "quitting".  Smiley
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« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2007, 11:09:01 PM »

Artists only do art. It's companies that do money. If an artist has a pet project, he better go off and make his own company.

But yeah, "quitting," sure.
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« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2007, 11:13:50 AM »

...Blizzard releases about 1 game per year decade, so it can't take that risk...

 Wink
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« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2007, 07:38:48 AM »

I would rather release one game every x years that astounds my audience, wins industry awards and becomes an instant best-seller than release a steady stream of mediocrity.
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« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2007, 02:19:08 AM »

I wouldn't, actually. I prefer to make a variety of interesting games. For instance, a lot of Nintendo's games haven't been stellar sellers (like Pikmin), but overall they produce more fun games than Blizzard does.
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« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2007, 12:02:54 AM »

heheh, i'm just hoping SC2 will be better than the original.  there's something about mowing down legion after legion of zerg that makes me smile intently.  and yes, the trailer too made my jaw drop at the insane amount of detail.

I would rather release one game every x years that astounds my audience, wins industry awards and becomes an instant best-seller than release a steady stream of mediocrity.

sounds good, though unfortunately there's a reason why the gaming industry is considered more a business than a creative endeavour.  starts with an 'm' and ends with 'oney'.  that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2007, 01:23:31 AM »

Quote
...starts with an 'm' and ends with 'oney'...

Manhoney? I know that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth...  Shocked

Or maybe Matrimoney?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2007, 02:55:24 PM »

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« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2007, 01:47:15 AM »

lol, oh yous guys.  but wat the hell is man honey?
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« Reply #74 on: June 03, 2007, 02:05:17 AM »

QUESTION: Does anyone still play the original Starcraft, like I do?
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« Reply #75 on: June 03, 2007, 08:49:18 AM »

I still play it with friends, sometimes. It's basically the only game we all like.
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« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2007, 10:31:08 AM »

I used to play it a lot over the LAN with my brother, but now... Na' so much.
And for a while, I would play it over a Hamachi server with some people.

Maybe we should do that?
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« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2007, 03:38:29 PM »

when i play the original star craft now, i kinda wished the view was more zoomed out, like in the editor.  it is still fun, but haven't played it recently.
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« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2007, 09:14:29 PM »

I'd play it, but I now have a widescreen 19" monitor and the pixels are like the size of my fist.
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« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2007, 06:20:34 PM »

I have to say, I was worried about SC2 for the longest time. I was a semi-serious player back in the early days of Brood War and there were constant rumours of SC2, and a prevailing fear was that they'd ruin the good name of the original with a rushed product and a lack of regard for the balance that made SC great, based on the other RTSs on the market at the time.

But then since it's always interested me I've kept a close eye on all their announcements and they've come very close to letting something slip more than once. My suspicion is that they've been secretly working on this for a while with multiple restarts, which is reassuring since it means they were dedicated to making sure they could live up to SC before announcing something.

...I'm not basing that on anything but it makes me feel good inside. Don't ruin my illusion.


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