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Mark Mayers
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« Reply #5860 on: September 12, 2016, 01:17:30 PM » |
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I think something that's lost on these boards and even in documentaries like indie game the movie etc is just how many roles you have to take up as an indie developer. There may have been a time when someone could code a game in their basement and release it on steam the next day and that would do well, but it is definitely not the case now. Pretty much every indie budget game that I've seen succeed the past few years has been accompanied by tireless promotional work. I was talking about this with Joar yesterday, how there's basically this unspoken under-culture of devs as "marketing nomads" going from convention to convention perpetually, in different states and countries, exposing a game to new audiences, making journalists aware of it, building support from various communities, etc etc. It's like running a political campaign or something! But if you've spent years of your life and all of your savings account developing a game, you can't take the risk of just throwing it out there and hoping for the best. Outside of the traveling circus of the industry I don't think anyone is really aware of it. Like, the average person might go to a convention and see a dev there with their game and assume "oh cool, they are at this convention", but the truth is that they are at EVERY convention, and they probably have been for months or years, writing code in the hotel room, sending emails on shitty Starbucks wifi. This goes for the most polished indie darling to the roughest unity asset flip. Kind of fascinating, really. Even devs that are considered to be "reclusive" by the online gaming community I see regularly at these events, working hard. Phil Fish was at XOXO, Tarn Adams was at BIC, etc etc And as an indie you are doing this with a very small team of course, so long story short sometimes we're not reading too deeply into the TIGS comments, or will forego responding to questions that are answered elsewhere in the thread  Well said. Its time to release your child in the wild. More hype,without releasing the game, at this point,will make the product not better and it also wont lead to more people buying it, rather the opposite effect.
It's fantastic you're enthusiastic about the game, however remaining empathetic is important. Releasing a game is an emotionally challenging event especially after working several years. It's more than some 'product' to consume, which is necessary to both understand and empathize with. Detaching any emotion from the work and thinking from a purely business perspective, getting the release date right is absolutely critical. Releasing in the same window as some major AAA title could throw years of work away; and it's about to hit the season where many AAA games get released. Also you can never have enough marketing for an indie game. Most of the world doesn't even know what an 'indie game' is. Let the Rain World team do their job, and please be patient. Lots of meticulous thought goes into finally releasing a game to the wild. |
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kennoley
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« Reply #5861 on: September 12, 2016, 01:59:07 PM » |
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As for the alpha that's on humble, the link is legit but it is **OLD** and not in any way representative of the current game, so I personally would only recommend it to people who might be interested in following the development process in some depth. It might be interesting for people like Christian and Chris Early who have played the Lingo alpha years ago, then this early C# build and then get to see how the mechanics evolve into the final game, but likely not to the average player. And lastly: shoutout to the TIGS fam for holding down the threads while we've been away, answering questions, etc. Y'all are the best  Ok thanks for the response im sure I will enjoy it  , but just making sure: *If I buy the alpha I will get the final version of the game when it comes out?* also, final price? Again, thank you for your response |
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theEasternDragon
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« Reply #5862 on: September 12, 2016, 05:01:16 PM » |
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I HAVE A LOT OF OPINIONS ABOUT GAMES, I DON'T MAKE THEM, I DON'T MARKET THEM... BUT-- I UNDERSTAND THEM BETTER THAN THE DEVELOPER DOES AND YOU'RE DOING THIS WRONG! WORKING HARD TO PERFECT A GAME HAS NEVER ONCE MADE IT BETTER! QA IS A LIE! GIMME YOUR GAME! Lovely to see such positive encouragement. I agree with oldblood on this. As a general rule if you get on a forum, and whine and complain like a child about how the game you want isn't done, you are gonna get some negative attention from the loyal community, let alone the devs. The fact that you haven't been cursed out or ranted at is a testament to this community, (and frankly why I like it so much). Before you come and post stuff like this, how about thinking? Contrary to your personal belief, the world does not revolve around you. @kennoley: You will get the final game. I have been a long time alpha backer, and I checked into this. That being said, even if you buy it you will not receive the game. Just the way Humble is set up, (annoying I know). If you buy it, email James or Joar and see if they can send you a copy of the game, because the Humble system doesn't work. |
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chriswearly
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« Reply #5863 on: September 12, 2016, 09:31:23 PM » |
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...for people like Christian and Chris Early who have played the Lingo alpha years ago...
Not that it matters but I never actually played the Lingo build. The two I played were the Dec 21, 2014 (141220) build, and the Mar 3, 2015 (150303) build. Still, you're right. They are extremely limited compared to how the final game will be as you've showed it. But looking at it now, and even remembering how it was when we first got them, the Alphas are chock full of awesome gameplay. That link ( https://www.humblebundle.com/store/product/rainworld_earlyaccess_soundtrack/FpSDLkj8s) from the Humble store, is the same as the $25 kickstarter tier. You get to download the alpha to enjoy until the final release. And when the final game is finally released, you will get it and the soundtrack. |
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Dinomaniak
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« Reply #5864 on: September 13, 2016, 01:22:05 AM » |
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Can anyone confirm this ? Not sure who Chris Early is or if he is involved in Rain World and can speak for the James & Joar ( my sincere apologies if I'm missing something or lacking a relevant piece of info ). |
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kennoley
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« Reply #5865 on: September 13, 2016, 02:46:01 AM » |
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Can anyone confirm this ? Not sure who Chris Early is or if he is involved in Rain World and can speak for the James & Joar ( my sincere apologies if I'm missing something or lacking a relevant piece of info ). Well @theEasternDragon said that if you don't get the final game for some reason, just email James or Joar and see if they can send you a copy of Rain World. Thanks for answering my questions guys |
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oahda
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« Reply #5866 on: September 13, 2016, 03:12:27 AM » |
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I HAVE A LOT OF OPINIONS ABOUT GAMES, I DON'T MAKE THEM, I DON'T MARKET THEM... BUT-- I UNDERSTAND THEM BETTER THAN THE DEVELOPER DOES AND YOU'RE DOING THIS WRONG! WORKING HARD TO PERFECT A GAME HAS NEVER ONCE MADE IT BETTER! QA IS A LIE! GIMME YOUR GAME! TL;DR.
This. I feel like they've been working long enough on this and made these kinds of decisions enough that nobody, not even those who have followed Rain World since its beginning, really knows what's best more than Joar and James do. I kind of felt this way about complaints regarding Last Guardian's new delay...  I'm trying hard, but it's really difficult for me to sympathise with the perspective of consumers who are fed with games all the time yet get worked up about delays as if they'd been denied some basic human right, heh... It's either get a buggier game released earlier or a better game released later, but there will be complaints either way, despite the fact that the story would never have been any different if no date were ever announced in the first place. It comes out when/if it comes out, and then you can enjoy it (or not). Isn't that great? Games! Maybe one should avoid announcing dates altogether and just release the game when it's done? But I suspect that probably breaks some golden rule of marketing (not my forte). Tricky stuff... It obviously does get more sensitive when there's been a fundraiser involved, because then people have actually invested their money in this game, and might get worried if the game never releases, but RW is obviously going to get released, so. It would've been understandable if the game got officially aborted or something. But even then only if patrons didn't get their money back. So eh. |
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Torchkas
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« Reply #5867 on: September 13, 2016, 03:32:32 AM » |
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Speaking of movement. How's the learning curve? I hear all this talk about how the agility in the game feels really good and moving through the world is a joy, but does the game just drop you in somewhere or is there a thought-out learning space for the player?
I haven't played the game and don't follow it really closely so sorry if this has already been explained.
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Dinomaniak
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« Reply #5868 on: September 13, 2016, 06:40:05 AM » |
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Can't purchase it from the respective link ( https://www.humblebundle.com/store/product/rainworld_earlyaccess_soundtrack/FpSDLkj8s ) I receive an error : Our humble apologies, we encountered an unknown error. Sometimes this happens briefly when we are changing things or App Engine is down. Please try again in a minute or so!
Check @humblesupport for status updates Any other place where one may wonder into rainworld ? |
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io3 creations
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« Reply #5869 on: September 13, 2016, 09:42:06 AM » |
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I kind of felt this way about complaints regarding Last Guardian's new delay... I'm trying hard, but it's really difficult for me to sympathise with the perspective of consumers who are fed with games all the time yet get worked up about delays as if they'd been denied some basic human right, heh... It's either get a buggier game released earlier or a better game released later, but there will be complaints either way, despite the fact that the story would never have been any different if no date were ever announced in the first place. It comes out when/if it comes out, and then you can enjoy it (or not). Isn't that great? Games! Maybe one should avoid announcing dates altogether and just release the game when it's done? But I suspect that probably breaks some golden rule of marketing (not my forte). Tricky stuff... It obviously does get more sensitive when there's been a fundraiser involved, because then people have actually invested their money in this game, and might get worried if the game never releases, but RW is obviously going to get released, so. It would've been understandable if the game got officially aborted or something. But even then only if patrons didn't get their money back. So eh. But at least you are aware of the delay, while crankykong isn't: Your last status update on kickstarter was in april.
IIRC there was a mention on this blog of the most recent delay due to some kind of QA or testing scheduling conflicts a few month ago. Had that been mentioned on Kickstarter as well, chances are crankykong and others would be more sympathetic. |
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presidenthobbes
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« Reply #5870 on: September 13, 2016, 11:00:12 AM » |
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Or at least give the player the ability to kill this thing in the first level to get rid of it for the rest of the game. Maybe there is a screen where you can let something heavy fall onto him. Or you can electrify the floor , or blow him up,because he shows up beside a explosiv tank.Or you can chanel toxic gas in the tunnelsystem where he is hiding,.... The possibilitys are endless to get rid of this anoying stalkerlike creature.
I don't want to start a "you're-wrong-you're-ideas-are-invalid" bandwagon here, but I think this quote suggests you haven't really gotten the right tone from the game. It's not about action or murder, its about survival. Why would a slugcat want to kill something that leaves it entirely alone? |
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 11:19:03 AM by presidenthobbes »
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Dinomaniak
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« Reply #5872 on: September 13, 2016, 05:31:05 PM » |
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Cool, I'll try it ! would you happen to have a link to the 10$ tier purchase as well ?
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kennoley
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« Reply #5873 on: September 14, 2016, 03:12:41 AM » |
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Cool, I'll try it ! would you happen to have a link to the 10$ tier purchase as well ?
If your asking me, sadly I don't have the link, I got the $25 link from a guy named Christian so id ask him if he has a $10 tier purchase of Rain World |
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kennoley
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« Reply #5874 on: September 14, 2016, 02:49:15 PM » |
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Just played the Alpha and its actually pretty good, there were a little glitches here and there (legs constantly twitching and sometimes the game would just completely pauses for 5 seconds) but im sure thats fixed by now.
Also, will the final game feature Co-op multiplayer? (because I remember reading somewhere that they were testing local multiplayer)
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Christian
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« Reply #5875 on: September 14, 2016, 04:27:05 PM » |
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Just played the Alpha and its actually pretty good, there were a little glitches here and there (legs constantly twitching and sometimes the game would just completely pauses for 5 seconds) but im sure thats fixed by now.
Also, will the final game feature Co-op multiplayer? (because I remember reading somewhere that they were testing local multiplayer)
If I recall correctly, both co-op multiplayer and competitive modes are coming in a big post-launch content update. But that info was from June, so who knows; perhaps with the delay, they might be able to include those features in the launch. But I'll let James/Joar answer that definitively |
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jamesprimate
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« Reply #5876 on: September 15, 2016, 12:28:06 AM » |
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oh hey wow, i take a plane and this thread blows up again! since im getting flak for NOT doing this, i guess ill try to answer some questions now that im home... Also, will the final game feature Co-op multiplayer? (because I remember reading somewhere that they were testing local multiplayer)
that is the plan! though there are some gameplay problems to solve with that, so were going to wait until we can focus on it before making any big announcements. actually, basic functional co-op multiplayer is already in the alpha (i think? its been a while), just go into setup.txt and change 'player 2 active: 0' to 'player 2 active: 1' Cool, I'll try it ! would you happen to have a link to the 10$ tier purchase as well ?
there is none. we really didnt want to extend the kickstarter or anything like that, and would prefer people to see the game when its complete, but had so many requests for the alpha that we put up the $25 one as a "if you REALLY want it" sort of thing. you'll notice that we dont advertise it at all and poor christian has to be the one to post it when people ask. sorry! its just how we feel on the matter VARIOUS DIATRIBES ABOUT HYPE AND OUR COMPLICIT / NON-COMPLICITNESS IN SAID HYPE Debatable! In our minds Rainworld has been pretty overhyped and media saturated, so we have been consciously making an effort to downplay things the past months until we do the official release date / trailer and all of that (hence the lack of new footage, etc etc.) We dont want the game to come out and people to be like "ah yes, its rainworld, which looks like it has for the past 5 years". But that said we are still obligated to show the game and be present for conventions and events, which carries its own natural hype. Similarly, if a journalist gets in touch and wants to do a thing of course we're not going to tell them "no", that would be idiotic. But we also havent been actively seeking it out, if that makes sense. Though soon enough we will be! And we have 8 months of flashy progress to show, so im pretty excited for that. *If I buy the alpha I will get the final version of the game when it comes out?*
yes! though probably only on Steam. Sony has its own rules for that stuff, and we are like bugs to them. also, final price? not sure yet, actually! "DELAY" STUFF People are weird about this. Knowing how variable, tedious and time-consuming all this stuff is (as well as awareness of the various bureaucracies involved), we *very consciously* never announced any official release date and we only will when everything is locked in and we are 100% confident with being able to hit that date. But hopefully soon!!!! ok thats as far back as the quote machine goes, so let me know if i missed anything! im going to try to get joar to post too, i know you all miss him. and hey i really appreciate you guys and gals all sticking up for us on the threads, and just in general. i honestly think of you all as friends and hope we can share a drink or whatever some day. i wont lie: development is lonely and super alienating. for years we've spent locked away in basements working insane hours, separated from the real world, living this weird life of half utter isolation / half 100,000 person conventions and media appearances. its impossible to discuss IRL, friends cant relate, its too weird. for me, twitter and TIGS have been my outlets. not just common interests, but people who are going through the same stuff. so anyway, cheers to you all  |
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Dinomaniak
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« Reply #5877 on: September 15, 2016, 02:31:38 AM » |
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A big thanks for picking up on all of our questions James ! And so, the next question comes : what's the furthest point we can get at in the game, in the alpha version ? |
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kennoley
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« Reply #5878 on: September 15, 2016, 03:50:57 AM » |
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oh hey wow, i take a plane and this thread blows up again! since im getting flak for NOT doing this, i guess ill try to answer some questions now that im home... Also, will the final game feature Co-op multiplayer? (because I remember reading somewhere that they were testing local multiplayer)
that is the plan! though there are some gameplay problems to solve with that, so were going to wait until we can focus on it before making any big announcements. actually, basic functional co-op multiplayer is already in the alpha (i think? its been a while), just go into setup.txt and change 'player 2 active: 0' to 'player 2 active: 1' Thanks! multiplayer makes the alpha (imo) 10 times better, only problem I ran into trying to play it with my sis is that S in the alpha makes the game speed up and at the same time S is how to duck for 2nd player.... so do you know if there is a way to change the controls for 2nd player? (also sorry for being one of the people to give you criticism for not answering questions, your doing just fine  ) Thanks in advance |
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Dinomaniak
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« Reply #5879 on: September 15, 2016, 07:35:43 AM » |
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After finishing the alpha in the 2 out of 4 regions I have to say, the exploration part feels unexpectedly good. Some of the level designs were great, and I'm sure you've made changes to the lacking ones.
Didn't manage to kill any lizards yet, and most lizards felt deadly, however somewhat easy to avoid using rails.
The last zone felt nearly impossible with the flying bird eating lizards, then me.
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