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[jamesprimate]

dropping in some of the early work on the new multiplayer levels...

[crankykong]

Cant remember that most people wanted a flat out easy mode.
People wanted adjustable settings which they can finetune after their own taste, and change specific elements like the karma mechanic(karmagates stay open after you unlocked them once,..) and the "timelimit through deadly rainfall" mechanic. Making an easy mode , where things are easy the player does not want to be easy and things the player would love to see change, stay the same, does not sound very great!

I feel like the people who are in desperate need for an easy mode in order to experience the full game are going to prefer just the easy mode instead of a bunch of levers they have to change manually. Adjustable settings might sound like a good idea but in the end it fragments the playerbase and it makes it harder to talk about the game as a whole, thats the reason why games like Dark Souls and Cogmind avoid multiple difficulty settings.
Making the slugcat have different colors depending on difficulty is also a good call because of that.

Games have adjustable settings for different mechanics since the beginning of video games.
And it works great since then.The number of players who prefer to have one difficulty just for the purpose of talking with each other about their experience in the game in this forum are a very very small minority compared to the number of people who bought the game and want to adjust the settings individualy.

It makes no sense to make certain aspects of the game easier which most players do not want to be easier and on the other side leave aspects like the karma mechanic or timelimit which most players had a problem with (because they all mentioned it in their reviews) as it is, just because the developer want to force the player into playing the way they have imagined it to be played , which most player clearly do not want,which you can see on a metacritc rating of 57(ps4) and 64(pc) .

[Crispy75]

Some great games with great difficulty settings that alter many aspects of gameplay in different ways:





Ultimately, the developers made the game they wanted to make. The karma system and time limit are critical parts of the design, and they knew they would be divisive before the game was even released. The behaviour of those systems was well covered in reviews. Remember that all you get in return for your money is *that game*. Anything on top is a bonus, given generously, which you can either ignore or thank them for (if it's to your tastes).

Specific demands of the developers just comes off as whining and entitlement.

[crankykong]

Ultimately, the developers made the game they wanted to make. Specific demands of the developers just comes off as whining and entitlement.

Yes but not the game most kickstarter backers wanted them to make.
Cant remember them mentioning the karma gate mechanic in the pitch they made the backers on their kickstarter side. They "smuggled" the mechanic in without asking only in the last third of development.I have not seen one trailer before release which showed/explained the karma gate mechanic.They even said , as fans asked why there are no new content trailers in the last year of development, that they want to suprise the players.Well they did suprise the players , but not the way they wanted them to be, as you clearly can see on all the rateings/reviews outside of this forum/filterbubble.

I dont care what you think is whining and entitlement or about your mario jpegs.
Saying someone is whining or entitled because he argues for adjustable settings instead of a flat out easy mode,instead of you makeing some valid counterarguments on why you think a easy mode is better than adjustable settings... thats the definition of entitlement.

[Crispy75]

instead of you makeing some valid counterarguments on why you think a easy mode is better than adjustable settings... thats the definition of entitlement.

It's really not a definition of that but here you go anyway:

I don't trust myself, and indeed I wouldn't trust most users, to come up with a nicely balanced easy or hard mode without loads of trial and error. I don't have time for that, and I trust the game authors to choose a coherent set of changes that will make the game easier or more difficult. They know the game better than I do, and I want to play an artist's authored intent, not my own mish-mash of best guesses.

If Mariokart had a detailed settings screen instead of the 50/100/150cc screen (one can imagine sliders for AI skill, item probability, speed, grip, acceleration etc.) then I'd be much more likely to create an unbalanaced mess than an enjoyable game. That sort of fine-grained alteration of a game is much better suited to mods anyway.

[presidenthobbes]

Ultimately, the developers made the game they wanted to make. Specific demands of the developers just comes off as whining and entitlement.

Yes but not the game most kickstarter backers wanted them to make.
Cant remember them mentioning the karma gate mechanic in the pitch they made the backers on their kickstarter side. They "smuggled" the mechanic in without asking only in the last third of development.I have not seen one trailer before release which showed/explained the karma gate mechanic.They even said , as fans asked why there are no new content trailers in the last year of development, that they want to suprise the players.Well they did suprise the players , but not the way they wanted them to be, as you clearly can see on all the rateings/reviews outside of this forum/filterbubble.

Kickstarter backers are not stockholders. What they want is, suffice to say, not relevant. When someone kickstarts, they should understand that they are ultimately getting a product that the developers design. Kickstarting is a process where people interested in projects can help fund them in the future; it's about equity, and helping smaller products reach a market. If you're kickstarting things so you can have creative control BEYOND what the developers promise (like the backer creatures) then you don't really understand the transaction you made. The developers are responsible for making a game which accurately resembles the product advertised in the kickstart. It doesn't mean they have to deliver the product that you personally imagine, that would be ridiculous.

The idea that game developers "smuggled" a mechanic into a game THEY made is even more ridiculous--not to mention, it's nowhere near a main game mechanic. Karma literally only matters when transitioning between regions.

As far as easy/hard modes being definitively contained within characters, I for one support the idea. Making the difficultly of the game too flexible undermines a lot of the meaning behind a lot of the game--it feels like a cop out if you can just disable the things you like and augment the things you do. Rain world is about a whole cohesive experience that is severely weakened if you make too much of it modular. Disabling rain? That's one of the main mechanics behind the game! While the game would still be playable, and would still probably be fun, it would create a different experience that doesn't quite fit the one intended behind the game. Because of how important immersion is in the game, a complex system of adjusting game mechanics would break a lot of immersion. I don't want to start spouting about "game purity" but I do think there is merit by keeping the game difficulties pure and streamlined for everyone.

[Wolvered]

These ferns are absolutely gorgeous! Are they new or were they already in the game as of now and I didn't see them?

[Teod]

Yes but not the game most kickstarter backers wanted them to make.
Cant remember them mentioning the karma gate mechanic in the pitch they made the backers on their kickstarter side. They "smuggled" the mechanic in without asking only in the last third of development.I have not seen one trailer before release which showed/explained the karma gate mechanic.

You know what else they have smuggled in there? Centipedes made of spiders! I never asked for this! Nobody asked for this! They have never shown them to us and it wasn't in the Kickstarter pitch! How dare they! That's betrayal of the highest order against your most loyal fans. A refund-worthy offence. Absolutely disgusting. Am I entitled to an option to remove them as well?

On a more serious note, a suggestion regarding the difficulty modes: allow us to change them mid game, while in shelter. If you don't want them to be too freely changeable, you can make that cost Transit points. Also, do slugcat colors need to be that bright? I kinda expected them to stay on the pastel side of things, like your old ones and like slugcat family in the intro.

[presidenthobbes]

On a more serious note, a suggestion regarding the difficulty modes: allow us to change them mid game, while in shelter. If you don't want them to be too freely changeable, you can make that cost Transit points. Also, do slugcat colors need to be that bright? I kinda expected them to stay on the pastel side of things, like your old ones and like slugcat family in the intro.

I think that might be the lantern making the slugcat seem superficially red

[JLJac]

Aaaand there!



@theod, yeah, might be a little bit too bright? Part of the puzzle is that they need to looks distinctive enough in multiplayer as well...

[crankykong]

Kickstarter backers are not stockholders.

No they arent, but without them the game would not have been possible.

You know what else they have smuggled in there? Centipedes made of spiders!

Yes those are nice.
But the timelimit and for some(not me) the karma mechanic are not,as you can read in most rewiews outside of this filterbubble here.Cant remember anybody said something negative about the real live "daddy long legs" in his or her review:







But i remember many saying something negative about timelimit and/or karmagates in their reviews.

I don't trust myself, and indeed I wouldn't trust most users, to come up with a nicely balanced easy or hard mode without loads of trial and error.

It´s not like someone would force you to adjust the settings if they where implemented.
They could make three different difficulty modes and beside of that a few subsettings for each difficulty mode.If you select one of the three dificulty modes the settings would be preselect but you could finetune them,if you want to, at the same time by adjusting individual points in the menu. And if you dont want to finetune them further just select one of the difficulty mode and leave the subsettings like the devs have set them for that difficulty mode... win-win Situation for everyone.

But saying that nobody should have the right to turn certain gamemechanics off or adjust them,after those gamemechanics caused so many bad rewiew scores,  just because you yourself wouldnt want that for yourself because you find the game perfect as is and therefore everybody else must find the game as perfect as you do and if he does not then he just did not "understand" how the game is "ment" to be played ... thats just total bs.

The idea that game developers "smuggled" a mechanic into a game THEY made is even more ridiculous--not to mention, it's nowhere near a main game mechanic. Karma literally only matters when transitioning between regions.

Im glad that you like my context-creation there, i also find it very funny(but in another way than you do).

I imagine those playtester sessions, where someone from the outside comes, plays the game for a few hours and then tells the devs what he/she thinks about the game.Most playtesters probably told them that they did not like the timelimit and/or the karma mechanic as is, i would asume because playtesters are just a cross-section of the normal people which gave the game a usermetacritic rateing of 7 out of 10 and a critic rewiew of 6 out of 10,after release.

And then one of the two(probably James) thought after those testings where over:

"They are no gamedesigner.They do not know how the game is ment to be played.They just do not understand this experience i am providing for them.They just do not know whats good for them.But they will thank me when i stay strong and bring the game out exactly as it is know.I cant compromise my artistic view".

The same James who wrote after release of the game this:

thank you for your kind words, friends!

if you'll pardon a request: for those of you who are enjoying our little rainy world, Id like to encourage you to write Steam / PS4 reviews! Launch day is super huge for us ofc, and getting past the "i died it was too hard 0/10, 0.2hrs played" crowd is going to take our supporters speaking out. TY!! 

And wondered  where ,out of nowhere, all this "bad" reviews where comming.
Thats pretty funny.

[Dinomaniak]

What is added towards the hard mode ? will the rooms be any different from the ones in the normal level ? or is it simply related to the number of creatures/tools spawned in each room and how they act ? e.g. : to befriend a lizard you need 3 cicadas instead of 2.
Will multiplayer be online or local ? I assume local however I've seen exits in the rooms which would imply players could be on different screens - not feasible for local.

Thank you for these - to come - updates, although personally I'd prefer new areas, more story/endings ( felt like the one we have is way too short ) on the normal difficulty. I sincerely think EVERYONE was looking to the "reunite the family" ending .

[kennoley]

Update 534

Whew, lots of work these day! I'm doing some multiplayer stuff (basically an arena mode) and difficulty modes. The idea for the difficulty modes is that you'll be able to select a slugcat to play as, and they'll come with a few different perks and/or slight variations to the world. For the first update I'm gonna do 3 of them ~ Yellow (easy), White(normal) and Red(hard). White will ofc be just like the current game, whereas the other two have slight variations.

Here's Red carrying an extra spear on its back:


The extra spear goes outside of the two "slots" of the hands, meaning that you can have it simultaneously as carrying two other objects (and potentially a fourth one in your tummy). The spear is stashed and retrieved similarly to how you swallow stuff, but requires a significantly shorter button hold. I think there should perhaps be some more animation to the slugcat's arms when putting/retrieving the spear, will get to that later today.

This is a pretty significant boon to the player, but don't worry, playing as Red will be very very challenging! Red is basically for the action-oriented players, and you'll need that extra spear.

Playing as Yellow on the other hand is going to make your life easier in a bunch of ways compared to White.

This sounds great!, I really hope that playing as the Red slug-cat will not affect the time (When the rain comes) at all since thats already kinda short as it is. I'm on my second play through so far and iv'e been craving for something more difficult 

Its nice to see that the head-to-head multiplayer is getting great progress, but how is the co-op aspect of the game coming along? (or is that not a priority right now?)

[presidenthobbes]

I imagine those playtester sessions, where someone from the outside comes, plays the game for a few hours and then tells the devs what he/she thinks about the game.Most playtesters probably told them that they did not like the timelimit and/or the karma mechanic as is, i would asume because playtesters are just a cross-section of the normal people which gave the game a usermetacritic rateing of 7 out of 10 and a critic rewiew of 6 out of 10,after release.

And then one of the two(probably James) thought after those testings where over:

"They are no gamedesigner.They do not know how the game is ment to be played.They just do not understand this experience i am providing for them.They just do not know whats good for them.But they will thank me when i stay strong and bring the game out exactly as it is know.I cant compromise my artistic view".

Well it's great (well not really, kinda rude) that you imagine that but that's a pretty irrelevant non sequitur. The point is that the devs should have ultimate creative control over their project. Kickstarter backers got kickstarter rewards, beyond that they aren't entitled to any more than the people who bought it when it came out. Part of a kickstarter is that you don't know exactly what you're getting. Investments accrue some amount of risk, it's true.

[Teod]

I imagine those playtester sessions, where someone from the outside comes, plays the game for a few hours and then tells the devs what he/she thinks about the game.Most playtesters probably told them that they did not like the timelimit and/or the karma mechanic as is, i would asume because playtesters are just a cross-section of the normal people which gave the game a usermetacritic rateing of 7 out of 10 and a critic rewiew of 6 out of 10,after release.

And then one of the two(probably James) thought after those testings where over:

"They are no gamedesigner.They do not know how the game is ment to be played.They just do not understand this experience i am providing for them.They just do not know whats good for them.But they will thank me when i stay strong and bring the game out exactly as it is know.I cant compromise my artistic view".

Your imagination is incorrect. If you read this blog thoughtfully, you would know that karma system is a direct result of the player feedback, created to reward surviving players even if they don't make a lot of traditional "progress" in a cycle. It also (by my interpretation) fundamentally changes the type of challenge the game gives from "pass through" to "learn to live in", which puts better emphasis on both survival mechanics and AI.

@JLJac, I thought about your old ones from this pic. But now looking at them, they aren't all that different. The only concerning one is the new green one from James' pics - looks acidic. Maybe change to blue? Others are fine, although I think they can still be made 10-20% paler without losing recognisability. Also, regardless of slugcat colors, you may want at least an option for permanent player markers on screen, for colorblind accessibility.

[Sein]

I didnt really hear people complaining about the Three day timer in majora's mask too much.

Personally the Karma system and rain timer feel like a big part of what makes rain world what it is. Taking both of those away would make it just too easy and would change the game. May as well rename it something other than "Rain world" then at that point.

Actually at one point I was actually SAVED by the timer because I was stuck in a place in farm arrays, and then it rained. I was able to ride the flood into the room above and was lucky that there was a Bunker there! Was the most intense part of the game for me and I felt so much joy and excitement that, after soooo many failed attempts to get across, the rain actually helped me progress!

[Doliprane]

Haven't you any news from Sony about the PS4 patch ?

[Schrompf]

While I see the difficulties in adjusting to "everyone" and I certainly acknowledge the good things that may come out of harsh conditions - I personally did not buy the game even though I'd love to explore its world because I have no spare time to grind. And that "Karma lost on every death" is just that: grinding. If you have fun to do so, feel free. I won't.

[Manray]

Ok?

[jamesprimate]

Haven't you any news from Sony about the PS4 patch ?

Short answer: its probably still about a week away


Long answer: Bah! This has been an incredibly frustrating process and im so disappointed that it has taken this long, sorry. We shipped patch code for the PS4 version literally 2 days after the game launched, and basically its been back and forth between us, ASG, the people doing the PS4 port, and sony for the past month.

There was a "finished" patch version that got through the process a week ago which was intended to go out, but somehow aspects of the sleep screen UI got messed up (), stuff thats only apparent later in the game, and its just luck that I happened to triple check before it went out.

So now thats being addressed. Hope is that it can be out early next week, but there has been so many bugaboos with this PS4 patch that i dont want to make any official announcements until its done, tested, and in my hands.

Doubly frustrating because it takes time away from us working on the new content! Every time a new version of the patch comes in, its like 3 days solid of me and the ASG QA team running it for bugs.

Anyway! Pardon the vent, but thats whats up with that.