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[jprosk]

This is kinda out of the blue blue but, Joar, if you and Del made a Rain World bestiary book I would pay a lot of money for it. I know it would take away some of the mystery and would probably be a lot of work but god are the creatures diverse and fascinating. It would be so cool to have a book as a souvenir of the game too.

[Wolvered]

This is kinda out of the blue blue but, Joar, if you and Del made a Rain World bestiary book I would pay a lot of money for it. I know it would take away some of the mystery and would probably be a lot of work but god are the creatures diverse and fascinating. It would be so cool to have a book as a souvenir of the game too.

Seconded that would be awesome 

[jamesprimate]

this a good idea

[professir]

The tricky thing with coop is the screen - as we don't have scrolling, we can't even do the old hack "camera hovers at the point between the players, so you better stay somewhat close" ~ instead we have the screen-by-screen thing, which if you think about it is really difficult to get to work with two players. Actual split screen would be the only Real Solution, and I've been experimenting with that, but that in turn creates a bunch of difficulties with the shaders. So idk ~ we definitely want co-op, it seems like it could be really awesome, but it takes some serious thinking to come up with a good solution! We'll start with the one-screen arenas, those are a bunch of fun in themselves

Perhaps you could stay on the screen until both players exit through the same tunnel. When the first player tries to exit, they just sit in the tunnel (in a limbo state) until the second player joins them -- then both players transition to the next screen together.

When a player is in the limbo state, at any time they could press the opposite direction to come back out of the tunnel (perhaps player 2 wants to exit through a different tunnel).

Also when a player is in the limbo state, you could have a UI element prompting the other player to join them (a guide flower would be helpful here!).

This is kinda out of the blue blue but, Joar, if you and Del made a Rain World bestiary book I would pay a lot of money for it. I know it would take away some of the mystery and would probably be a lot of work but god are the creatures diverse and fascinating. It would be so cool to have a book as a souvenir of the game too.

Seconded. (fourthed?)

[BravoVictor]

I pre-bought the game and played it maybe 10 hours. The game is undeniably beautiful, both visually and design-wise, and that's what kept me playing. But it is quite frustrating to progress, and it doesn't seem like there's a big reason to do so because there doesn't seem to be much reward in it. All you get is another screen and maybe some new ridiculously difficult enemy -- and as imaginatively those screens and enemies may be designed, there needs to be more. Is there more? Maybe there is. But I'm not walking through hell for something that might or might not be there. If Rain World world was a movie, I'd say it had severe pacing problems.

Also how about a post-mortem?

[jamesprimate]

Is there more?

all i will say is "yes". one of the major points of the game (and to me the most significant part about it) is that you dont know the depth of the world and have to dig to pull it all together on your own, so i wont go too much into detail here. feel free to read the steam reviews by people who beat it (35-60hrs played) if youd like, they'll be a better barometer than asking us developers

[bobble]

Hello,

Just posting to know if there is any official word about a less difficult mode ? (like...without Karma, and with a much longer Rain countdown....or even no rain at all )

The core game is already insanely difficult without these 2 mechanics on top of it (imho, and I dont consider myself as a bad player :/ (I've finished Dark souls more than once for example if that means anything)

I love the game, I truly do. I'm amazed by all the creatures and how they move around and would love to see the whole thing. But I keep ragequitting, again & again & again... And my last ragequit was 2 weeks ago, havent touched the game since.. I think the frustration finally got over my will to finish it :/ which is a shame because the game is really.. fascinating.

So just wanted to know if an easy/easier mode is planned or not ?
Thank you

[Wolvered]

Hello,

Just posting to know if there is any official word about a less difficult mode ? (like...without Karma, and with a much longer Rain countdown....or even no rain at all )

The core game is already insanely difficult without these 2 mechanics on top of it (imho, and I dont consider myself as a bad player :/ (I've finished Dark souls more than once for example if that means anything)

I love the game, I truly do. I'm amazed by all the creatures and how they move around and would love to see the whole thing. But I keep ragequitting, again & again & again... And my last ragequit was 2 weeks ago, havent touched the game since.. I think the frustration finally got over my will to finish it :/ which is a shame because the game is really.. fascinating.

So just wanted to know if an easy/easier mode is planned or not ?
Thank you

Yes, there apparently is an easy mode planned,in the next major update, that allows you to play a yellow slugcat, and playing the game as him is supposed to be much easier

[Sein]

Ok i can understand that listening to the players is a good thing. But i really think that there needs to be a line drawn. lately, a lot of the complaints are asking to make the game completely casual, to basically remove challenges and make the game a showcase for creatures and environment. I can agree to an easy mode making it more attractive to those who dont like difficult games. But, asking to completely remove key aspects just so people can walk through the game like its minecraft easy mode is asking a bit much of the developers.

Not every game has to be ultra casual to be good. I personally like the game as it is. I had difficulties at first but it really is about being able to adapt to mechanics and controls. After a few hours i rarely had control issues.

I look forward to what the devs have planned next. Its gonna be good.

[tortoiseandcrow]

(imho, and I dont consider myself as a bad player :/ (I've finished Dark souls more than once for example if that means anything)

One of the biggest differences between Dark Souls and Rain World is its concept of difficulty. In a game, "difficulty" is not merely a measure of the ease with which you complete it, but the way in which the game produces a pleasurable friction as you pass through it.

People often speak about Dark Souls as being indifferent to the player. I don't think that can be further from the truth. Dark Souls is designed with great care around the player's progression through the world. Dark Souls is, to take the sadomasochistic metaphor to completion, a very caring and considerate dom: it wants to hurt you the way you like it. There is a fundamental consistency to its structure, and you come to treat that consistency as a boundary. You can trust it to treat you a certain way, and while it often attempts to surprise you, to push your boundaries, it very rarely violates the trust it builds in you about its own limits. It's not insignificant that repetition in Dark Souls has the effect of easing its difficulty - the game supplements your growth in skill with soul levels. In a dead world, full of beings that can only ever react, you are the only thing that is truly active, and that means failure in Dark Souls can only ever be your fault. Dark Souls has a concept of difficulty that is capable of subsuming pain into pleasure through pure perseverance.

Rain World, on the other hand, is closer to a more genuine indifference. It throws you into a dynamic system that operates according to an internal logic that is necessarily opaque. Each new environment and creature introduce a new set of relations that are utterly invisible to you, while your avatar within the world remains almost entirely unchanged. The game has a consistency, but the principle of that consistency is not one of absolute boundaries in relation to the continued growth of your character, but of dynamic flows in relation to a specific perspective. Its boundaries are hazy, so that it often seems capricious, but there is also where the beauty and the appeal lies. You must, from your specific perspective, come to grips with the interweaving of an ecosystem that includes, but does not depend upon you. Rain World has a concept of difficulty that subsumes pain into pleasure through the acceptance of a position within a world. In a dynamic world, things are sometimes simply not your fault. Dying "unfairly" at the hands of a creature is just another corner of that experiential horizon being illuminated.

I think where a lot of people who loved Dark Souls are really bouncing off Rain World is these two very different concepts of difficulty.

[DireLogomachist]

I think a lot of the criticism here is honest, but I just wanted to pop in saying that I just started the game and am loving it so far. There was a bit of a hump at the beginning, but I've gotten into a rhythm with it and I'm having a lot of fun!

Thanks for all your hard work on this guys!

[Torchkas]

Ok i can understand that listening to the players is a good thing. But i really think that there needs to be a line drawn. lately, a lot of the complaints are asking to make the game completely casual, to basically remove challenges and make the game a showcase for creatures and environment. I can agree to an easy mode making it more attractive to those who dont like difficult games. But, asking to completely remove key aspects just so people can walk through the game like its minecraft easy mode is asking a bit much of the developers.

Not every game has to be ultra casual to be good. I personally like the game as it is. I had difficulties at first but it really is about being able to adapt to mechanics and controls. After a few hours i rarely had control issues.

I look forward to what the devs have planned next. Its gonna be good.

the great thing about an easy mode is that you don't have to use it

[Sein]

I think where a lot of people who loved Dark Souls are really bouncing off Rain World is these two very different concepts of difficulty.

You said it so beautifully I almost came to tears. XD

This is exactly what it is in my opinion. it shouldn't be forced to become something its not meant to be.

the great thing about an easy mode is that you don't have to use it

While that is true, what I mean to say is, demanding the devs to completely dismantle their hard-worked creation into something more of a walking simulator is kind of a hurtful insult I think.

[jprosk]

the great thing about an easy mode is that you don't have to use it

While that is true, what I mean to say is, demanding the devs to completely dismantle their hard-worked creation into something more of a walking simulator is kind of a hurtful insult I think.

I personally think it's fine what they are doing. For one thing, you shouldn't tell Joar what he wants or doesn't want to do!  If he wants to make an easy mode so more people can enjoy the aesthetics of the game, it's for his happiness, not for the game itself. To get your point across, though, there should be a clear explanation of each difficulty (such as "this is how the game was designed to be played!" on normal, and "this is an easy mode, specifically for those who just want to admire the world or who don't enjoy extreme difficulty" on easy).

[Dinomaniak]

I entirely support the different difficulties. Finally my wife is going to get to play it and explore it without going insane in The Leg .

A few questions :
- what will the pups purpose be ? get them to a shelter and then they disappear ? have them go around you until you/they die ? ( that would be cruel ). Or is there going to be a specific slugcat nest ?

- Will there be environment changes ? I'm refering to the levels design, or will all the maps and rooms stay the same, however new creatures will appear in some empty rooms ?

[Wolvered]

I think that back during the pup concept phase, James and Joar said that you would get to play them (as adults I guess) after making them survive for some time

There are definitely new creatures, like porcupine spiders and noodledlies, but it is yet unknown if they will be specific to a difficulty setting or not. Also, maybe you noticed but in the game as it is now the regions ecosystems can change after a while if you open new ecological niches (yellow lizards and land kelp spawning in outskirts for example)

EDIT: As for map changes, I don't think it will happen, but there will be some new rooms for arena mode and coop in general

[bitserum]

What if pups could open doors to a very casual type of coop; for example they could be a way for casual players to coop with a "hardcore" adult player in a Sonic 2 (Tails) manner (but not as overpowered as Tails was)

[JetBlackJasper]

@bitserum While that could be a decent idea, it more lends itself to being much harder as even though more pups/players could make a small scavenger pack of sorts, those are all more mouths to feed, which especially with some of the harder areas really becomes a test of co-op patience and how good players are at scavenging. Kinda like how it is in Don't Starve Together-- while most players work together around the earlier stages, it really becomes a countdown until one turns on the other for easy resources.

That in mind though I'm wondering about how the pups would change the single-player campaign. I can't remember if I spoke to this last time I commented, but I can't imagine the idea of taking 1 pup through Pebbles (let alone 3), so I wonder if the overarching narrative would have to change. Or the possibility of lowering the entry from The Wall to Pebbles since I think taking the pups through there would be waaay easier than playing catch the flying pups in zero g.

[Manray]

@bitserum While that could be a decent idea, it more lends itself to being much harder as even though more pups/players could make a small scavenger pack of sorts, those are all more mouths to feed, which especially with some of the harder areas really becomes a test of co-op patience and how good players are at scavenging. Kinda like how it is in Don't Starve Together-- while most players work together around the earlier stages, it really becomes a countdown until one turns on the other for easy resources.

That in mind though I'm wondering about how the pups would change the single-player campaign. I can't remember if I spoke to this last time I commented, but I can't imagine the idea of taking 1 pup through Pebbles (let alone 3), so I wonder if the overarching narrative would have to change. Or the possibility of lowering the entry from The Wall to Pebbles since I think taking the pups through there would be waaay easier than playing catch the flying pups in zero g.

New regions maybe?

[tortoiseandcrow]

I should say I obviously support the addition of multiple difficulty levels. While it would be preferable for the game to be finely tuned to one single difficulty, the lack of a built in difficulty scaling mechanism (like gaining levels, for example) would seem to make it difficult to balance for a variety of skill levels. I plan on playing again on a lower difficulty for sure. It's not a point of pride for me.