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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsProject Rain World
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io3 creations
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« Reply #7160 on: June 24, 2017, 02:42:23 PM »

Shouldn't this thread's icon be changed to "Done!", or is it still considered a WIP with all the user input constantly flooding in? p:
My guess is that some of the WIP elements are actually part of the original vision. If that is true then it's still not "done".
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« Reply #7161 on: June 25, 2017, 04:41:47 AM »

Got a bug to report. In both of Lime-Mime's 100% runs, he meets Moon for the first time while holding two neurons that he brought from pebbles, which he then gives her. However when he then goes to hibernate, the slide that shows up is the one of Moon being in pain. Despite that the overseer doesn't appear angry and keeps following slugcat as if nothing happened.

It first happenned here: https://youtu.be/SC1Rg20Amkg?t=2h07m25s
And it happenned again here: https://youtu.be/TNAz3KYd2pQ?t=1h58m2s
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« Reply #7162 on: June 25, 2017, 05:09:19 AM »

I was reading this excellent developer postmortem on TumbleSeed (a game I love but, like most users it seems, have never made it past the jungle) and I couldn't help but be reminded of Rain World. I would love to see a similar sort of thoughtful analysis from Joar and James on the reception of Rain World.
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« Reply #7163 on: June 25, 2017, 05:17:37 AM »

Shouldn't this thread's icon be changed to "Done!", or is it still considered a WIP with all the user input constantly flooding in? p:
My guess is that some of the WIP elements are actually part of the original vision. If that is true then it's still not "done".
So the game was, shall we say... "late access"? Tongue
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jamesprimate
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« Reply #7164 on: June 25, 2017, 02:55:36 PM »

Yeah, just checked again.  Using the Reset Progress button does not clear the minimap.

hmmm are you playing the PS4 version or PC? we've got some version fractalization going on these days so just want to make sure O_____O


Got a bug to report. In both of Lime-Mime's 100% runs, he meets Moon for the first time while holding two neurons that he brought from pebbles, which he then gives her. However when he then goes to hibernate, the slide that shows up is the one of Moon being in pain. Despite that the overseer doesn't appear angry and keeps following slugcat as if nothing happened.

It first happenned here: https://youtu.be/SC1Rg20Amkg?t=2h07m25s
And it happenned again here: https://youtu.be/TNAz3KYd2pQ?t=1h58m2s

noted! ill send it to joar

Shouldn't this thread's icon be changed to "Done!", or is it still considered a WIP with all the user input constantly flooding in? p:
My guess is that some of the WIP elements are actually part of the original vision. If that is true then it's still not "done".
So the game was, shall we say... "late access"? Tongue


perpetual access! you know we can only do things our slow weird way, hahah


I was reading this excellent developer postmortem on TumbleSeed (a game I love but, like most users it seems, have never made it past the jungle) and I couldn't help but be reminded of Rain World. I would love to see a similar sort of thoughtful analysis from Joar and James on the reception of Rain World.

OOF those tumbleseed numbers are rough, sheesh. Shocked i assumed it was doing well based on the reception my friends gave it.

idk! were weird because to a certain extent... we never really cared about how it was received? it was never a product for us, so we probably dont have too much to say about it in that regard. like, if we were trying to make a game that we were designing for people to like, and this or that aspect didnt work out, then maybe we'd do some examination and finding out where we went wrong would be interesting to read.

but rain world was a sort of personal art project that we were super into for our own art weirdo / creative reasons, and then some other people got into it, and then it snowballed bigger and bigger into this amazing opportunity for us to just DO WHATEVER ART WE WANTED TO for years on end. incredible. our expectations were literally zero and we've gotten to live amazing lives for the past 5 years and met incredible friends and fans from all over the world. the fact that its already sold so well is still insane to me. but none of that was designed. objectively speaking, so much of the game is "extremely bad decisions" from any rational gamedev standpoint. we just thought they were cool and did them anyway. if it tanked we would have said "yep, that totally makes sense". it has all been pure self-indulgence.

so idk, if i were to any sort of "useful to the community" devtalk about rain world post mortem it would be just about tedious stuff like dealing with publishers and porting teams, various higher-level decision making stuff thats "important for success" and all super dry and boring and doesnt reflect our intentions or the spirit of what were doing. id so much rather talk about how cool the RW discord server is, or how wild and dedicated the fans are, the incredible fan art community, etc etc. we didnt make this weird ass emo game to throw it into a powerpoint presentation in front of a bunch of people in button up shirts, we made it to communicate some feelings through the aether; some emotion, some atmosphere, some mood, some certain sensibilities. so seeing the results of that is what im interested in at the end. but its probably not really helpful to anyone elses game making process!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 03:11:04 PM by jamesprimate » Logged

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« Reply #7165 on: June 25, 2017, 03:25:14 PM »

Yeah, TumbleSeed is an incredible game, and even considering how overwhelming it can be I was surprised how rough the response was. I know Rain World has been doing much better than TumbleSeed, despite the harsh critical response, and I'm glad of that, even with my own reservations.

I guess what I would be really interested in reading in terms of a postmortem is about that disconnect between approaching Rain World as an art project and being received and evaluated as a video game. I mean, there is nothing wrong with self-indulgence, but it is a deliberate decision to do things in a way that isn't necessarily concerned with how others will receive it. I'm curious about those decisions, is all. Like, if you were putting in things that you knew were, from the perspective of game design, bad ideas, I would be very interested in hearing about the perspective that you were working from that made them good ideas.
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« Reply #7166 on: June 25, 2017, 06:42:16 PM »

ah! i should probably explain that a bit more before it gets taken out of context.

the design decisions werent "bad" of course. they were exactly the right decisions for rain world. its just many dont make sense from a perspective of "gamedev as a business" (and even sometimes the perspective of "videogames as entertainment"). rain world is all about hidden depth, being unable to distinguish the barriers of the game, blurring that line of projecting into what you see and real AI behaviours, a world (and narrative) thats much larger than the player character experience, the surprise of discovering things that are totally outside your established frame of reference and perhaps even the frame of reference of other players, etc etc etc. but that also means that 90% of the development effort is spent on content that only maybe 2% of players will ever see. thats terrible ROI, lol.

and of course imo thats what makes it interesting! we were perfectly happy doing things that nobody else was foolish enough to do. anyway, ill get off this train of thought but thought it might shed a little light on some of our behaviours.
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« Reply #7167 on: June 25, 2017, 08:30:46 PM »

This is exactly the sort of commentary I'm hoping for. When I say "bad design" I don't mean to assign a unilateral value judgement, but to express a difference in perspective between "games as entertainment" and your own unique approach which clearly has other priorities. I don't want this to be taken out of context either. The question is entirely about context!

Put differently, hoping that you'll see this as a sincere and good faith question, if you weren't prioritizing entertainment (acknowledging that entertainment takes different forms), what was guiding your process?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 04:07:16 AM by tortoiseandcrow » Logged
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« Reply #7168 on: June 25, 2017, 08:37:03 PM »

PC user here.
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« Reply #7169 on: June 26, 2017, 08:17:49 AM »

Bit off topic but Tumbleseed looks fun. Think I'll give it a buy once I get my summer sale budget
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 08:28:47 AM by jprosk » Logged
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« Reply #7170 on: June 26, 2017, 02:10:18 PM »

TumbleSeed is excellent. I just booted it up for the first time after the new update and it's a great deal more approachable without losing any of its appeal. I liked it a lot already, but I like it even more now.
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jamesprimate
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« Reply #7171 on: June 26, 2017, 07:37:26 PM »

Put differently, hoping that you'll see this as a sincere and good faith question, if you weren't prioritizing entertainment (acknowledging that entertainment takes different forms), what was guiding your process?

hm its a bit difficult to explain without going into a lot of detail and explanation about our personal design philosophies, but a short answer would be that we had a very clear sense of what we were trying to convey with the game, a "rainworld-ness" that we all agreed on very strongly, and achieving / communicating that was our only priority. things deemed "not rain world" were rarely considered.

theres a number of ingredients to this rainworld-ness, but much of it boils down to the desire to create a world-focus rather than a player-focus. games tend to be done in such a way that the entire world and everything in it exists only for the player. we wanted to move that frame a a little.
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« Reply #7172 on: June 26, 2017, 09:14:38 PM »

Fair enough! I was kind of hoping for some more detail, since I had an understanding of the broad strokes already, but it's also not reasonable for me to be assigning you writing projects  Tongue. Thank you for taking the time to answer in as much depth as you did!
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« Reply #7173 on: June 27, 2017, 12:12:34 AM »

I'm on the PC as well and I have to say : NOT deleting the map on the reset is a GREAT thing. I've actually reset the game and played it about 20 times by now, and having the map after the reset was extremely useful.
That being said, there should be a separate button for resetting map on data reset ( in the options menu ) .

Other than that : If Joar and/or James would write a 1 hour of reading entry about rainworld, mindset, brainstorm, making of, I would GLADLY read it. So please feel free to tell us as much as you'd like Smiley .
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« Reply #7174 on: June 27, 2017, 12:24:48 AM »

Other than that : If Joar and/or James would write a 1 hour of reading entry about rainworld, mindset, brainstorm, making of, I would GLADLY read it. So please feel free to tell us as much as you'd like Smiley .
You're posting on it!
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« Reply #7175 on: June 27, 2017, 01:24:02 AM »

If Joar and/or James would write a 1 hour of reading entry about rainworld, mindset, brainstorm, making of, I would GLADLY read it. So please feel free to tell us as much as you'd like Smiley .

Here, you can find one there Wink
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« Reply #7176 on: June 27, 2017, 08:24:28 AM »

Ha, yes, the devlog is a wonderful blow-by-blow of the process itself, but it's not quite what I was asking for, which is an after-the-fact critical reflection on the game, particularly in relation to the response from players and critics. Such a reflection doesn't have to be "oh yes you were right, here's what we're fixing, we're very sorry", like many postmortems are. In fact, I think it might be more interesting to read up on what James and Joar think players and critics who found the game frustrating are missing about the game.
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« Reply #7177 on: June 27, 2017, 10:08:50 AM »

@tortoiseandcrow exactly - same here Smiley .
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« Reply #7178 on: June 27, 2017, 01:07:36 PM »

BTW, James, I messaged you via Discord.

Edit: Thank you! :D A new age in Rain World Modding has begun.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:43:40 PM by 12LandsBoundlessSpace » Logged
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« Reply #7179 on: June 27, 2017, 02:19:07 PM »

I love this game.

But there is one thing keeping me from holding it as gem status.

And that is the horrible menu lag.

I hope for that day
that this lag goes away
so I can sit down with my gem.

So I can sit down with my gem
and stare into its essence,
as its edges reflect its message,
and I see myself within it.

Thank you.
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