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RAMINATION
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2012, 01:16:06 PM »

Mother/Earthbound was a game that had really down to earth start. I haven't played them much but I've tried the NES game (the first of the series?) and the SNES game (the third of the series?).

I recall these games being set in a "normal" world. The places to visit aren't fantasy type of places and the enemies are real animals or other normal things. And you use normal everyday items.
BUT!
Some alien stuff start to happen and if I know correctly, at least one of these games end up being a surreal fight against a womb or something like that.



I don't know why there aren't any "real life" RPGs around (as far as I know). There is no reason not to do a game like that, unless the reason is money and that people just prefer fantasy. RPGs don't need fantasy at all, in my opinion.

I like RPGs, but the fantasy setting just has become a bit too boring now. I'm quite tired to deal with magic in nearly every single RPG out there.




OH WAIT!!
River City Ransom / Street Gangs was pretty unique as an RPG! It's like Double Dragon RPG.
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Hangedman
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« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2012, 01:35:59 PM »

That aside, fantasy has greater justification for a wide variety of weapons/tools/actions and locales. It also allows you to force the player to deal with things that technology has shortcut for us. Transportation, creating items, exploration, communication, etc.

If it deals with technological themes it is more likely science fiction, not fantasy which this thread is about.

My point was that they intentionally don't deal with technological themes. Technology has shortcut things like transportation and creation and exploration. In the fantasy world, you don't have a car or whatever (maybe you get an airship later, but that's once you've walked everywhere). Fantasy doesn't have mass production or fabrication, just individual crafting, smithing and chemistry/alchemy that involves the player a lot more in the system. In the past/fantasy world, you can't just email someone or look up the answer to a question. You have to go talk to people and find out.
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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 01:37:00 PM »

Mother/Earthbound was a game that had really down to earth start. I haven't played them much but I've tried the NES game (the first of the series?) and the SNES game (the third of the series?).
Earthbound (the SNES game) is the second of the series, Mother 3 is the GBA game.

Earthbound (and, I presume, the others in the series) takes place in a parody of '90s America. Ness uses bats and yoyos instead of swords and stuff like that, for example. The game has plenty of "psychic powers" that essentially correspond to a magic spells in fantasy-themed RPGs, and there's a lot of other strange stuff but for all intents and purposes it's a modern-day setting (or rather, modern at the time of its release).
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baconman
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 02:30:31 PM »

But what stops to develop new worlds and universes?

Nothing does. It just creates an artifical "work/effort barricade" that doesn't exist in the medieval fantasy realm. In sci-fi you have to "reinvent the Klingon." Nobody working in fantasyland ever needs to "reinvent the Ogre." (Although they're always welcome to.)
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RAMINATION
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2012, 02:37:13 PM »

Mother/Earthbound was a game that had really down to earth start. I haven't played them much but I've tried the NES game (the first of the series?) and the SNES game (the third of the series?).
Earthbound (the SNES game) is the second of the series, Mother 3 is the GBA game.

Oh, okay. Thanks.

Quote
Earthbound (and, I presume, the others in the series) takes place in a parody of '90s America. Ness uses bats and yoyos instead of swords and stuff like that, for example. The game has plenty of "psychic powers" that essentially correspond to a magic spells in fantasy-themed RPGs, and there's a lot of other strange stuff but for all intents and purposes it's a modern-day setting (or rather, modern at the time of its release).

Were these powers there from the beginning?
I recall them appearing quite in line with all the alien stuff?

It's been too long since I've played these so I might be completely wrong.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2012, 02:43:22 PM »

I don't think a majority of RPGs are fantasy, they just happen to be the most visible RPGs. There are a LOT of non-fantasy RPGs. Roughly half the Final Fantasy series (ironically) is more sci-fi or steampunk than fantasy. the large SMT series is horror/sci-fi, not fantasy. The post-apocalyptic Fallout series has done very well, not fantasy. Mass Effect is not fantasy. I could go on.

The reason why people generally think of fantasy first in RPGs is because the most famous RPG of all time (D&D) is fantasy. But it's hardly the only one.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2012, 02:52:24 PM »

i think it's just tradition; dungeons and dragons was the first popular rpg and is fantasy, and most rpgs got their start by copying dungeons and dragons; even final fantasy 1 used the same 'spell levels' system that dungeons and dragons does. the stats from d&d are basically the stats of most rpgs: strength, agility/dexterity, intelligence, wisdom, stamina/constitution. even the idea of "HP" comes from d&d

i think that all genres are basically "the first popular game in that genre and all its clones", and that's d&d in this case. with fps games it was doom, with platformers it was mario, etc.
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RAMINATION
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2012, 02:53:00 PM »

Roughly half the Final Fantasy series (ironically) is more sci-fi or steampunk than fantasy.

I think those games are just set in a steampunk or sci-fi setting but are still clearly fantasy. Dragons and magic are everywhere in these games no matter how much there is sci-fi and steampunk with them.

Even Final Fantasy 6 which was quite much full-on steampunk at the beginning became clearly fantasy as the game progressed. One of the biggest thing in the whole game was the plot about magic disappearing and the heroes getting it back and starting to bring the magic back to the world. Or something like that. I never much cared for the stories in those games. I just liked to find stuff and places and level up the characters and abilities.
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2012, 03:01:00 PM »

with fps games it was doom

Yeah.

From twisted satanic occultism:



To boring realms:



I don't know what happened.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2012, 03:22:51 PM »

it didn't change all that much -- remember that in doom you played as a *space marine*. you still play as a space marine in most fps games (e.g. halo)
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« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2012, 03:46:36 PM »

it didn't change all that much -- remember that in doom you played as a *space marine*. you still play as a space marine in most fps games (e.g. halo)

That is funny thing actually, I learned about that detail maybe almost 10 years after I first played Doom. I thought it was me there shooting satanic beings.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2012, 04:11:43 PM »

ya -- the third episode *is* in hell, so you're not totally off, but the first two episodes are on the two moons of mars. i can understand if you didn't read the manual, but i thought there were some clues in the game itself too -- e.g. aren't phobos and deimos named anywhere in the game? i don't remember
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« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 04:17:36 PM »

ya -- the third episode *is* in hell, so you're not totally off, but the first two episodes are on the two moons of mars. i can understand if you didn't read the manual, but i thought there were some clues in the game itself too -- e.g. aren't phobos and deimos named anywhere in the game? i don't remember

I must have skipped them, or did not read.
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Derek
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« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2012, 07:48:28 PM »

You're fighting monsters from Hell on those moon bases, though.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2012, 08:06:39 PM »

and you fought monsters from another dimension in half-life and half life 2, who came into our reality because someone opened a portal to their world -- i don't see all that great of a difference
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« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2012, 01:51:19 AM »

I always thought rpgs are often "fantasy"-genre games because whole sword fighting and "occasional spell" thing lend themselves very well to dice rolling and stats, while futuristic/modern setting (with guns) works much better as fast paced shooter.

It's much easier to imagine skill come in play when two guys meet with a sword, parrying and dodging and slowly wearing themselves down (or completely murdering the other), than in "point and kill"-system of guns. Two guys standing 10 feet from each other, firing their guns, it feels retarded if they miss... for 5 times in a row, or the battle takes more than few seconds Wizard

edit: Obviously talking about the fantasy setting fitting the rpg mechanics more. Not the actual "role-playing" in it.
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Alec S.
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« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2012, 11:28:56 AM »

The RPG genre is derived from the Table-Top RPG genre, which is dominated by Dungeons and Dragons.  Thus early RPGs were trying to be computerized versions of Dungeons and Dragons, or similar games.  Thus fantasy in particular and speculative fiction in general became the bread and butter of the RPG genre.
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« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2012, 01:08:03 PM »

and you fought monsters from another dimension in half-life and half life 2, who came into our reality because someone opened a portal to their world -- i don't see all that great of a difference


IIRC, Half Life was a deliberate homage to doom in that regard.

But many other FPS are based on modern military and either have you playing rambo or an elite member of a [para]military organization.

Anyway, even on pen and paper, there are a few non Fantasy RPGs, including Paranoia, Dark Heresy, and even a Street Fighter game, so yeah, most of the whit knight explanations and such have no place as a justification of fantasy being a more adequate medium. It simply is just a popular one.

As said, Fallout is an excellent example of a CRPG that has no fantasy elements (exluding perhaps mutants, but even so).
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« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2012, 03:12:23 PM »

You know, that gives me quite an idea to subvert the fantasy genre a bit. Imagine an RPG set in a place where, for some reason or the other, technological and even commonplace items are held in suspicion and awe.

It might be that they're from an isolated tribe, or maybe knowledge was slowly lost throughout the ages, but that doesn't matter all that much.

The important thing is, when you walk up to the old man in a cave, he tells the player character "It's dangerous to go alone! Take this legendary rod of fire, the greatest treasure of our village!" and hands him what obviously is just a rusted shotgun. Now, the player may know it's a normal object, but does his character have the same knowledge? In the same way, the first time he ventures into the jungle and finds a gorilla, is he likely to think "Oh sure, that's an herbivore primate of the homininae subfamily" or "By the gods! A troll!"

Perhaps the plot in such a game would not revolve around defeating a powerful last boss or something, but rather discovering the nature of the world around the player, separating truth from myth.

Hmmm. Another one for my unused game ideas folder.
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« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2012, 03:20:04 PM »

I dig the narrative behind that. A highly stylized post apocalpytic setting would fit. Rather than huge wastelands, maybe highly overgroun forests on top of ancient cities and shit.
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