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[Bennett]

Well I don't think it's crazy to suggest that price is the most important variable. Price often turns out to be the most important variable in these issues - for example, whether athletes use steroids depends most strongly on prizemoney.

Probably the other most important variable is convenience. I think the history of digital distribution shows that black markets succeed regardless of price whenever they are more convenient to use than the most convenient legal alternative. People will pay $9 for a record on iTunes because it only takes one click. People will pay $5 to get a Britney Spears ringtone on their phone since they can do it by sending an SMS from the train. But since they can get a record for free with a small degree of effort, they are no longer willing to schlep down to a real record store and pay $15 (or even $9) there.

The perception of quality is also important, but I assume you're doing your best to foster that perception, either by promoting your game or by actually making it good.

Putting your indie game on a console makes it a bit more inconvenient to pirate, which surely does reduce piracy. But if you want to convert as many potential-pirates into sales as possible:

1) get the price as low as you can, but more importantly
2) make sure it is as convenient as possible to buy.

I think sometimes indie games don't manage 2) as well as they could. Getting a game on wiiware is sort of easy (could be easier) and I haven't tried XBLA, but I assume it's roughly the same. Getting a game on Steam couldn't be much easier. If you are self-publishing, though, you need to think about reducing the number of clicks that someone has to do in order to buy and download the game. If you are picking a third-party credit card server, pick the one that offers the most streamlined experience.

One thing that you often see is a game that lets you download the demo and convert it by purchasing a code. This makes it easier to buy and also much easier to pirate. But what I have never seen is a game which lets you pay to register the demo directly from within the game, without opening a web browser. Obviously, most indie developers don't have the skills to do that, but I reckon it would make a massive difference to sales. Someone should make an open source API or something.

On the theft issue, whether you think piracy is theft or not, it is clear that people don't feel like they're stealing from you when they pirate your game. We have to give up on hoping that pirates feel bad about pirating stuff. When someone pirates a game, it is because they took the price, added the inconvenience, and assessed that total against what they thought your game was worth. If they wound up paying more than what they thought it was worth, THAT's what would make them feel bad.

[Saint]

But what I have never seen is a game which lets you pay to register the demo directly from within the game, without opening a web browser. Obviously, most indie developers don't have the skills to do that, but I reckon it would make a massive difference to sales. Someone should make an open source API or something.

Hmm, I while I do think I have seen that I think you're definitely on to something. I see a couple of other different ways to do this, though...

- Make an open-source library that connects to a paypal (or similar) account and does a paypal transaction in-game. This would be fairly easy to do as the http/https protocols can be implemented without too much of a hassle, but it would alienate people that don't have paypal.

- If you're going to charge by credit card, you'll likely have to use some service for the security and transaction issues so it might be a good idea for them to provide a closed library that you can easily implement to handle transactions. In fact, if there isn't a company like this already starting one up might be profitable.

Anyone know if this is offered already?

[shinygerbil]

I used to pirate games, all games. (For the PC, that is; before that, of course, when I only had a console, it was practically impossible to pirate with the same ease.)

Now I buy all my games, or I don't play them. (Although I do have an R4 for my DS, and the temptation is all too much occasionally.) Indie or not, if I want to play it, I find the cash or I wait.

I do actually feel better inside for it. I didn't feel bad when I used to pirate - any more than I do now if I pirate a film or something - but I definitely feel better for supporting indie games, and even big commercial titles. A game just feels better if you've paid for it. I used to pirate a game, and get bored of it all too quickly for no apparent reason besides the nagging feeling that I wasn't really playing the game *properly*. (Also, it never helps to have *!*CrAcKeD bY DeViAnCe*!* all over the loading screen :D) Now, when I buy a game, I really play it. I guess it's to do with trying to get my money's worth, which is of course a problem pirates don't have to face. If you pay nothing for the game, it automatically holds less value for you than if you went out and bought the shiny box or whatever.

There's just something very satisfying about looking down my Steam games list and seeing all these games that I own. ^_^


also, KONJAK WE LOVE YOU NEVER BE DISCOURAGED!!

[muku]

But what I have never seen is a game which lets you pay to register the demo directly from within the game, without opening a web browser. Obviously, most indie developers don't have the skills to do that, but I reckon it would make a massive difference to sales. Someone should make an open source API or something.

Hmm, I while I do think I have seen that I think you're definitely on to something. I see a couple of other different ways to do this, though...

- Make an open-source library that connects to a paypal (or similar) account and does a paypal transaction in-game. This would be fairly easy to do as the http/https protocols can be implemented without too much of a hassle, but it would alienate people that don't have paypal.

- If you're going to charge by credit card, you'll likely have to use some service for the security and transaction issues so it might be a good idea for them to provide a closed library that you can easily implement to handle transactions. In fact, if there isn't a company like this already starting one up might be profitable.

Anyone know if this is offered already?

I don't know, that doesn't sound too enticing to me. Would you enter your PayPal/credit card credentials into a proprietary piece of software where you don't even know what it's going to do with them when you can simply do it via the relatively trusted browser interface?

[Don Andy]

I used to pirate games, all games. (For the PC, that is; before that, of course, when I only had a console, it was practically impossible to pirate with the same ease.)

Now I buy all my games, or I don't play them. (Although I do have an R4 for my DS, and the temptation is all too much occasionally.) Indie or not, if I want to play it, I find the cash or I wait.

I actually plan to "let go" of pirating, too, but as of now my salary doesn't really allow that (so in essence, I cannot afford both life AND gaming, so I have to pirate either of them :p). As soon as I get a better job, though, I really want to let go of it, too.

I do actually feel better inside for it. I didn't feel bad when I used to pirate - any more than I do now if I pirate a film or something - but I definitely feel better for supporting indie games, and even big commercial titles. A game just feels better if you've paid for it. I used to pirate a game, and get bored of it all too quickly for no apparent reason besides the nagging feeling that I wasn't really playing the game *properly*. (Also, it never helps to have *!*CrAcKeD bY DeViAnCe*!* all over the loading screen :D) Now, when I buy a game, I really play it. I guess it's to do with trying to get my money's worth, which is of course a problem pirates don't have to face. If you pay nothing for the game, it automatically holds less value for you than if you went out and bought the shiny box or whatever.

Yes, yes, yes, I second the notion. PS3 being pretty much the only gaming system you can't pirate (and play) games for, yet, makes me buy the games for it (I can afford games for one system, but not all of them, and my hobby dictates playing ALL of them). I feel much better about playing a PS3 game than a 360 game where I have to go all hush hush and stealth out of "fear" that Xbox Live might catch me.
And yes I already got a banned 360 :p

So I totally second that notion.

also, KONJAK WE LOVE YOU NEVER BE DISCOURAGED!!

That notion I second, too. Noitu Love 2 still one of my most favorite games and THE best indie game I bought so far.

[Saint]

I don't know, that doesn't sound too enticing to me. Would you enter your PayPal/credit card credentials into a proprietary piece of software where you don't even know what it's going to do with them when you can simply do it via the relatively trusted browser interface?

Yes, that is of course an issue.

I do agree that one less hurdle could impact sales, though, so it might be worth trying to come up with solutions for this.

[Don Andy]

I don't know, that doesn't sound too enticing to me. Would you enter your PayPal/credit card credentials into a proprietary piece of software where you don't even know what it's going to do with them when you can simply do it via the relatively trusted browser interface?

Yes, that is of course an issue.

I do agree that one less hurdle could impact sales, though, so it might be worth trying to come up with solutions for this.

Technically, the issue isn't all that different with websites either. They could do anything with the stuff you enter (especially credit cards), too. Isn't that why they have all this certification mumbo-jumbo? Pretty much every page with Paypal payment has one of these "PayPal certified" banners.

Of course, everyone can put these on his websites/games, too.

[Nathaniel607]

Im generally agains piracy, Ive only ever pirated one game for the PC, and thats because I lost the disk and couldn't play it, so I just thought 'fair enough'.

But I hate piracy, esapecially indie piracy, once I saw someone on youtube said they made a crack for Audiosurf. Yes, a crack for a $10 GAME. Just sad.

Also, most overpriced commercial games dont warrant a crack. Anyone want a Ninjabread Man crack for Wii? 

[muku]

I don't know, that doesn't sound too enticing to me. Would you enter your PayPal/credit card credentials into a proprietary piece of software where you don't even know what it's going to do with them when you can simply do it via the relatively trusted browser interface?

Yes, that is of course an issue.

I do agree that one less hurdle could impact sales, though, so it might be worth trying to come up with solutions for this.

Technically, the issue isn't all that different with websites either. They could do anything with the stuff you enter (especially credit cards), too. Isn't that why they have all this certification mumbo-jumbo? Pretty much every page with Paypal payment has one of these "PayPal certified" banners.

Of course, everyone can put these on his websites/games, too.

When you pay via PayPal, your data only ever goes to the PayPal server, never to the site you're buying from. So you only have to trust one company (PayPal) with your data instead of every one you want to buy from. That's an improvement.

That certification thing is, I think, more related to whether they are an all-around serious business if I recall correctly, and has nothing in particular to do with privacy.

[Don Andy]

Also, most overpriced commercial games dont warrant a crack. Anyone want a Ninjabread Man crack for Wii? 

You really just need to put a Modchip in your Wii, and with the PS2 version it'd be even easier :p

[Tobasco Panda]

Konjak: Geez, I hate to hear that you've been hit by piracy so much. I was waiting to see if there was a possibility of Noitu Love 2 on Wii after playing the demo at GDC.

Still, I'd probably buy it again to play it on the Wii.   

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I don't think he's whining. It's easy to say people are whining about something until you have to deal with something yourself. Like -- "oh, those waitresses are just whining about low tips!" is easy to say if you've never been a waitress.

I think the root problem here, which cliffski in that article gets at, is that one's position and actions automatically create self-deception and bias, no matter if you're a game designer, a pirate, or just a person who buys games. Of the three, though, I think pirates are generally the most self-deceptive (although all of them are to some degree). I think this comment on Digg.com's mention of this article (it was front-paged) nails it:

In his survey, he will get one of five canned ***** answers:

1. Piracy actually helps developers because it promotes their game and people are just "trying before they buy". The moment they like the game, they immediately stop playing and go buy the game.
2. Piracy does not affect the bottom line of companies, because the people who pirate would not buy the game anyway. Sure, game playing is one of their main hobbies and how they spend most of their free time, but they would not have bought it anyway.
3. Most games are crap and suck. That's why pirates spend time searching for the game, a day downloading the game and dozens of hours playing the game. Because it sucks. It's also the main reason why the big, crap titles are also the most pirated.
4. Because software companies don't reward the true artist fairly. The barely pay them for their work. So pirates download it to make sure the artists don't get anything. And to give companies more ammunition why developers can not be paid more.
5. Because games are too expensive and pirates can't afford it. Why should a person pay $60 for something they are only going to play for 80-100 hours? That's like 80 cents an hour!

In his survey, he will not get the one true answer:

1. Because it's free and they can, therefore they will. The simple fact is that the morality of most people is simply held in check by what they are able or unable to do. They have the ability to pirate games, so they do. It's sad, but it's reality. People have no shame on this issue.

[Corpus]

Movius, are you being serious or not? How is vandalism not a crime?

I think piracy is an interesting problem. On the one hand, if someone pirates a game that they would never have considered buying anyway, the developer doesn't lose out. On the other hand, it says a lot about modern society and the general mindset of most people that they think they have the right to enjoy something that somebody slaved away on for months or years without paying them.

Pirating a game rather than pay for it (i.e. if you would otherwise have bought it,) however, is absolutely, inarguably wrong, IMO.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

On the one hand, if someone pirates a game that they would never have considered buying anyway, the developer doesn't lose out.

One thing to consider is that it's not the developer alone that's being hurt, it's also all the people who bought the game who know that other people are getting something for free that they paid for. I paid $30 for Aquaria, and knowing that people got it for free is annoying, because it feels as if I lost $30. I'm not saying I would pirate it, but the feeling that I lost something, that the pirates took something away from me, the customer, is there.

Another thing to consider is that even if the developer doesn't "lose" anything, it's still rude to do that to someone. Rudeness to me is a worse act morally than piracy, and the primary reason I believe piracy to be a bad thing is because it's rude. Ignore copyright law, and pretend piracy is legal, and this still remains: if a developer doesn't want you to play his or her games without paying for them, it's disrespectful to do so.

[fish]

op:
so according to you, if i dont want my game to by pirated, i should just not make the game?

that's great advice.

[ZeppMan217]

Piracy on NL2? You got to be kidding us. Where? Where are those nicely pirated copies of NL2??? I've found Aquaria and many other indie-games pirated. But not NL2.

How about those who simply can't buy the game from official sources due to some reasons? Those people have to use smthing like PirateBay or any other pirate site.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I just searched in Google and found it in 2 seconds.

I can also find pirated versions of my own game in 2 seconds. If you know what keywords to look for, it's easy.

A lot of people could actually buy the game if they put effort into it, but can't because they don't want to expend that effort. For instance, many people don't have a credit card or are too young for them. But there are options for most e-commerce providers to send a check or money order that they could easily use instead (but they don't). You don't even need to be 18 to get a money order, I used to get money orders all the time when I was younger. I know of at least one person who pirated my game and said that he was too young to own a credit card as an excuse, but that's really not an excuse because anyone can get a money order.

[Corpus]

Oh, yeah, NL2 has been being pirated a shitload since day 1. It sucks. People suck.

[ZeppMan217]

Have you tried to dl them? Have you checked if they're working? I did. Results: Fakes or Demos.

[Corpus]

On the one hand, if someone pirates a game that they would never have considered buying anyway, the developer doesn't lose out.

One thing to consider is that it's not the developer alone that's being hurt, it's also all the people who bought the game who know that other people are getting something for free that they paid for. I paid $30 for Aquaria, and knowing that people got it for free is annoying, because it feels as if I lost $30. I'm not saying I would pirate it, but the feeling that I lost something, that the pirates took something away from me, the customer, is there.

I'm not personally bothered by that, because it seems, to me, like petty jealousy (I guess that's kind of offensive, but I recognise that everyone has a different attitude to these things.) That people less talented than you might end up with more important or higher paid jobs is an unfortunate fact of life and not worth worrying about. For the same reason, I don't see other people getting things for less than me as a great issue.

Another thing to consider is that even if the developer doesn't "lose" anything, it's still rude to do that to someone. Rudeness to me is a worse act morally than piracy, and the primary reason I believe piracy to be a bad thing is because it's rude. Ignore copyright law, and pretend piracy is legal, and this still remains: if a developer doesn't want you to play his or her games without paying for them, it's disrespectful to do so.

Well, yeah, I totally agree. That's what I meant when I said this:

it says a lot about modern society and the general mindset of most people that they think they have the right to enjoy something that somebody slaved away on for months or years without paying them.