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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I don't pirate games so I didn't check.

Usually you can tell from the file size, though. The demo is 10.2 MB, and the full version I found but did not download is 12.6 MB. Perhaps konjak could confirm that that's the size of the full version.

[Movius]

Movius, are you being serious or not? How is vandalism not a crime?

I think it's obvious from my first post that I was being serious.

A non-serious interpretation... I was making the point that crimes can be commited that don't involve a loss of a specific piece of property.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I am not sure if it's jealousy, technically speaking, because I don't want to be in their position, I am just annoyed that they got something for free that I had to work for. It's a bit like when someone who works sees someone who is on welfare for all their life who could work, but doesn't, and sees the person on welfare living an easier and better life than they are. (Note: I'm not really against welfare, I think it serves a valuable purpose, but I am against the misuse of it by people who don't need it.)

Although even if it is jealousy, is all jealousy petty? I believe jealousy is an important part of human nature, with a valuable role to play: otherwise it wouldn't exist. All our emotions are there for a reason. Jealousy is just as important and valuable an emotion as compassion and happiness and all that. Imagine a relationship without some modicum of jealousy (I don't mean its extreme form). It wouldn't be as much fun.

[mewse]

Golly gosh, Mr. author of pirated video game, I can't find your game being pirated anywhere.  I keep searching and searching and downloading and downloading, but I keep ending up with fakes or demos.  Can't you pretty-please provide a link where I can download a pirated version of your game, please?

 

[Corpus]

Well, the welfare thing you say is a good point. I'm opposed to people living on welfare and doing nothing at all on the grounds that it shows that they are greedy, selfish and think that it's the duty of society, the government or whatever to support them regardless of their worth (similar thing to people thinking they have the right to play a game without paying for it). Of course, there are some people who do need welfare and benefit from it.

The whole welfare thing is, in fact, a very good example of one of the major issues with jealousy. I've managed to get racist people to discuss their reasoning with me on occasion, and they often say things like, "well, they're all immigrants who do nothing and just live on benefits and end up richer than my family." It's generally completely untrue, a stupid generalisation and misconception stemming from jealousy. Also, often, the family of the people saying this, or the people themselves, are also pretty lazy and work only the bare minimum, which is why their lifestyle isn't so fantastic.

Obviously, jealousy can have positive effects; everything can. I guess it might even exist because it has a valuable role to play, but most evolutionary traits prevail because they allow one organism to succeed over another organism - i.e. they are beneficial only to the organism. It all comes down to personal philosophy.

I need to be more competitive, really.

[ZeppMan217]

mewse, I bought NL2.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I think in the case of racism, it isn't jealousy which causes it, but it's just used as a justification. I've come across people like that myself online, but I don't know any around here (perhaps because I'm on the east coast, where illegal immigration is less prevalent). But it kind of astounds me about how generalizing they are. They believe that *virtually all* immigrants live off of the government and benefit from government programs, and don't work or pay taxes, when the statistics are quite different: they often pay far more into the system in taxes (even illegal immigrants are usually subject to the payroll tax) than they get back.

And I think there's more to the significance of emotion than just allowing an organism to succeed over another organism. Evolution may be blind, but it isn't stupid: it wouldn't value traits which allow individuals to succeed over one another at the expense of the whole group, because groups *also* compete! Imagine a tribe of humans which are focused dog-eat-dog everything for themselves and nothing for others, and imagine a tribe of humans who love each other and work as a team. Which group is likely to survive in a war between the two? That's how compassion, love, and other traits evolved in: because they're useful for group success as well as individual success.

[cyber95]

I'll pirate games on occasion, but there's one criteria that needs to be met before this: There has to be no demo available. I'll pirate the game, and keep it on my computer for a day or two before deleting it, and then if I like it I'll buy the full game. Pirating games for me is just a demo working on the courtesy system.

I just don't have the money to go out and buy every game that I might like.

Anyway, this was about indie pirating mostly, and I'm not too familiar with this form of it, so I'll take my leave.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I can't really think of a game that doesn't have a demo available. Maybe in the old days, but are there any games since the advent of the internet which do not have demos?

[Valter]

Uh. Well, yes. Eternity's Child, for one, and that game apparently sucks.

[Corpus]

Actually, I must confess that I pirate DS games from time to time just to see if they're worth the money before I buy them. DS games cost so much, and are so often completely underwhelming, that if I didn't do this I would never buy them at all. Oh, and I delete the games after I've played a short amount of them. Well, I used to do that. I don't any more. Apparently you can download DS game demos to the Wii, now, so I could do that in future.

For indie games, though, I don't think it's justifiable. There's a big difference between the normal £1 - £15 price of indie games and the £35+ price of most retail games (and, as rinku said, there tend to be demos available of indie games, anyway.)

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Uh. Well, yes. Eternity's Child, for one, and that game apparently sucks.

I heard that there was a free version of the game with 5 levels released for mobile phones, which I *guess* counts as a demo, and also realize that the game was just released about a week ago so it's not safe to say that there will never be a demo (often full versions come out before demos, because they take time to prepare), but you're right. Still, I'd guess that 99.9% of games have demos.

EDIT: Apparently you can also get the GBA version of the game for free as a download, which may also operate as a demo, kind of.

As an aside, anyone been reading his blog? He's apparently giving up game design due to the negative responses his game got:

http://lucbernard.blogspot.com/

There is probably several reasons for me leaving this industry, the press can really destroy you morally, too much stress (kind of made me ill and become a alcoholic)

I thought the videogame industry was different, but no it's actually harder and worse than any other one, I still wonder why people hate Dennis Dylack for no reason and Uwe Boll, I don't think if people realize the psychological things it can do to people.

People love to hate for no reason, and well I've got enough problems in my personal life to do another game after Eternity's Child.

[Cheater‽]

Assassin's Creed doesn't have a demo either.

Also, I pirate games when my choices are:
a) Pirate.
b) Buy pirate copies.

And since the only place I've seen non-pirated games are at around 1500km away... That does amount to quite a lot of pirating.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Update: I just read on his blog that there actually will be a demo released pretty soon. So it's wrong to say that the game has no demo, it's just that demos are not always released on the same day as the full version of a game, for a number of reasons. I think it's a bad idea to do that, but that's totally different from there *not* being a demo, and pirating a game because you can't wait a few days for a demo is pretty petty.

[Tobasco Panda]

Assassin's Creed doesn't have a demo either.

Also, I pirate games when my choices are:
a) Pirate.
b) Buy pirate copies.

And since the only place I've seen non-pirated games are at around 1500km away... That does amount to quite a lot of pirating.

...Is importing not an option? At first I thought you were being hyperbolic with regards to the 1500km comment, but yeah, you guys get pretty screwed as far as official releases down there.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Assassin's Creed doesn't have a demo either.

Isn't that a console game? I don't think console games have demos. It's kind of hard to give people demos of console games. Not impossible (they can come with other games, like how there was a Lunar 2 demo with Vanguard Bandits), but hard.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Also, I pirate games when my choices are:
a) Pirate.
b) Buy pirate copies.

And since the only place I've seen non-pirated games are at around 1500km away... That does amount to quite a lot of pirating.

Can't you still buy games which are direct-downloads? Many games can be bought as a direct download, pretty much every indie game, and many mainstream games too (through Steam and the like).

[policedanceclub]

Isn't that a console game? I don't think console games have demos. It's kind of hard to give people demos of console games. Not impossible (they can come with other games, like how there was a Lunar 2 demo with Vanguard Bandits), but hard.

These days there is that fancy pancy digital distribution.

 

[Cheater‽]

...Is importing not an option? At first I thought you were being hyperbolic with regards to the 1500km comment, but yeah, you guys get pretty screwed as far as official releases down there.

Importing would indeed be a fine option, but there may be problems with payment. And the three to one exchange ratio which I lament too much on these forums.

Assassin's Creed doesn't have a demo either.

Isn't that a console game? I don't think console games have demos. It's kind of hard to give people demos of console games. Not impossible (they can come with other games, like how there was a Lunar 2 demo with Vanguard Bandits), but hard.

There's a PC version, but you're right about consoles. Also AFAIK MGS 2 doesn't have a demo for PC either, but it does for consoles.

Can't you still buy games which are direct-downloads? Many games can be bought as a direct download, pretty much every indie game, and many mainstream games too (through Steam and the like).

That does depend greatly on they accepting the credit card, and that the games are available, since most of my games weren't really money-makers when I got them.

RANDOM FACT: A friend of mine bought only one non-pirated game for his PS2. Most of his games still work flawlessly. The non-pirated game isn't on that list.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

These days there is that fancy pancy digital distribution.

 

How does that work, exactly? The newest console I own is the PS2, because I'm not an aristocrat (see other thread). So I've no idea what you're talking about.