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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesComparing Cactus and Messhof
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Author Topic: Comparing Cactus and Messhof  (Read 4127 times)
cmspice
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« on: August 12, 2008, 09:48:01 PM »

Seeing the recently announced collaboration http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2008/08/preview_bike_game_messhof_and.html I thought I would make a thread to discuss Cactus and Messhof. Share your thoughts.


Being neither the greatest fan of sadistic platformers inspired by Towers of Hanoi nor shooting games, I admit I've scarcely put more thanit has occurred to me that I seem to subconsciously group their games together in the same category.  a few hours into either developer's games. But perhaps from their proliferation or their profound story telling styles, I find the games by Messhof and Cactus all have an incredibly powerful stylistic impact. I like the think the few minutes I spent on games like "Space Fuck" and "You found the Grappling Hook" will be more memorable five years down the road then the 10 hours I wasted on a game like "Lost Planet" (I still wonder why I bought the game).

I should mention that when I refer to Cactus's game, I'm really referencing his story oriented games. I really haven't put enough time into his shooting/experimental games to have much of an opinion on them.

But apart from both being stylistically powerful the two developer's games seem to share something deeper in common. Cactus succeeds at taking retro style graphics and adding a sort of modern zest to them. The games innocently look circa 1990 but are put in context of more contemporary situations. The excessively smooth animation in his games lend to the modern feel. Messhof is not a good artist, yet he can have a keen aesthetic sense. The colors rarely match, and graphics are often poor in quality but ultimately somehow come together to give a positive aesthetic feel. Take "You found the Grappling Hook" for example. The use of white and beige on black feel like a failed attempt to adhere to a two color palette. Moreover the high resolution and detail of the character with smooth motion on the blocky, "pixelated" shall I say, terrain looks nothing short of awkward. Had it not been for my past knowledge of Messhof, I would have easily overlooked this gem from the awful looking screenshots alone. But for anyone who has played and beaten the game, the graphics create a welcome harmony with the plot albeit absurd as it is.

I don't want to give the impression that Messhof and Cactus' similarities are solely in their choice of plot. It really isn't so much what the plot is more so how the graphics and gameplay tie in with the plot. The graphics from both developers always seem out of place and always self unaware. Both their games usually start with the briefest introduction giving only the scarcest information needed to functionally play the game and immediately toss you in a world where you have no idea what you're doing. Messhof's "Randy Balma: Municipal Abortionist" has a title that seemingly promises depth and focus on character and yet the game immediately pits you as a drunken driver of a School Bus with a broken steering wheel. Cactus's "Stench" and "Space Fuck" both give a completely out of context introduction and then force the player take actions that have consequences. They create a sort of anti dramatic irony where the game both knows what is happening and accepts it as part of its universe whereas it is the player who is in control that is completely clueless.

This is getting pretty long...

Finally, the way both developers tell their stories. I think their method is unique to the medium of video games. I usually cringe and hiss at people who say video games are a unique genre because of their interactivity. Sure that's true, but what that really means is that when you have a story about blasting aliens, you get to point and aim and miraculously blast through 1000 aliens in a mortal body without breaking a sweat (this subtle criticism applies to all FPSs with the exception of Serious Sam which is just a parody of all those FPSs). But Messhof (particularly in YFTGH) and Cactus integrate game play as part of the plot and experience. The story becomes reliant on the video game medium. In YFTGH and "Stench" especially, you're forced to take actions without really knowing their consequences. There's the feeling of being in control of the character while it is the game that is control of you. The two punishment games are not just suppose to be exceedingly difficult platformer but a self aware masochistic experience of meaningless accomplishment. Finally "Stallions of America" takes a "Serious Sam" senseless violence with balatant criticism that delivers a profound experience and message.

Okay, that's all I have to say. I hope I didn't bore anyone.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2008, 10:18:32 PM »

Circa 1990? I'd say circa 1980 really. Cactus's games generally look far more like space invaders and asteroids than like Super Mario World and Final Fantasy 4. There are a few exceptions though (the Mondo games, Brain Damaged Toon Underworld, etc.)
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2008, 11:13:40 PM »

Circa 1990? I'd say circa 1980 really. Cactus's games generally look far more like space invaders and asteroids than like Super Mario World and Final Fantasy 4. There are a few exceptions though (the Mondo games, Brain Damaged Toon Underworld, etc.)

Yeah, I fail at video game history. I started gaming at SNES era around 1996 so I tend to think anything pre 1995 has to have pixels the size of Alaska.

On a side note, it's kinda interesting that my affairs with circa 1980 graphics is purely from the indy scene. I really do not care to go back and play consumer games like Donkey Kong and Space Invaders but I'm willing to give games like La Mulana and Tao Yarin a spin (admittedly, I almost didn't pick up La Mulana on account of the graphics as well). The old commercial games are so purely about gameplay and graphics. The novelty of a video game has since worn off though and the gameplay doesn't satisfy my thirst. Needless to say the graphics aren't anything to run home about. It's pretty interesting how indies are willing to use increasingly outdated art styles in increasingly innovative ways.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 11:25:00 PM »

The SNES era virtually ended by 1996, though -- the SNES was released in 1990 and, while games continued to be made for it in 1996, it had trickled down to almost nothing. One of the very last games for the SNES was Super Mario RPG, which came out in 1996.
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 11:36:01 PM »

One of the very lastBEST games for the SNES was Super Mario RPG, which came out in 1996.

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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 11:42:28 PM »

The SNES era virtually ended by 1996, though -- the SNES was released in 1990 and, while games continued to be made for it in 1996, it had trickled down to almost nothing. One of the very last games for the SNES was Super Mario RPG, which came out in 1996.

Continuing our gentleman like discussion over the historical credibility of my writing, my parents never bought me any consoles so I had to pleasure myself with an SNES emulator up until maybe November 18, 2001. Also, I played SNES for the first time around 95-96 and that was the only console I played for maybe the next year or so since that was the only console my friends had so as far as I'm concerned, SNES era for me is 1996.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2008, 11:47:22 PM »

In my case, the only console my parents bought me was the Atari 2600 and NES -- I bought the SNES, PS1, PS2, etc. myself. I remember babysitting for months to save up the $200 the SNES cost when it first came out... it was the first time I'd ever saved up that much money.
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 01:04:12 AM »

Oh god, I remember doing that to get an NES... spent a year doing extra chores for 25 or 50 cents to save up enough. Though I think having to save up to buy a system definitely impact your view of games.

Heh, one of my earliest memories is hooking up an atari, hands barely strong enough to use the screw driver for the dang antenna adapter.
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Türbo Bröther
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 06:24:53 PM »

Good game, but I would rather play world of warcraft, In the game (the most interesting game), farming for world of warcraft gold isn't easy, but you can buy wow gold on sale. We have revolutionized the exchange of cheap wow gold with fast wow gold delivery.
Honestly I would rather play with your mum. Farming her isn't difficult but it's easier to just buy her on sale.
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Valter
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2008, 07:01:01 PM »

Honestly I would rather play with your mum. Farming her isn't difficult but it's easier to just buy her on sale.

That was possibly the best response that could ever be given to such a statement. Beer!

Also: Messhof and Cactus are both very good at what they do. Messhof can take a fairly simple concept, and then use it to make a fun game. I beat Punishment: The Punishing, and I was suitably impressed, not only by the entertainment and difficulty, but also by the fact that it actually ended WTF

Cactus is really good at abstract shooters, on the other hand. He understands that with so many shooters online, the main way to distinguish yourself is presentation. His shooters look far better than other shmups out there, and that's why he's one of the most prominent shmup developers.

I'm looking forward to the new project. It seems like both Messhof and Cactus are testing new waters, 3D Biking seems to be a bit of a departure from shooters and platfomers, really.
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 09:10:54 PM »

First of all, holy shit Bike Game looks hot.

Other than that..., yeah, both Cactus' and messhof's games are more memorable than 90% of what's out there commercially.
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ChevyRay
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 09:48:00 PM »

One of the very lastBEST games for the SNES was Super Mario RPG, which came out in 1996.

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Beer!


I couldn't compare them if I tried. I love both their games, though.
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pl▲ygr☺und
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 06:26:32 PM »

they both use gamemaker don't they?
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 06:56:17 PM »

I'm looking forward to the new project. It seems like both Messhof and Cactus are testing new waters, 3D Biking seems to be a bit of a departure from shooters and platfomers, really.
It's like a combination: You dodge stuff, like in a shooter, and it causes epilepsy, like messhof platformers.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008, 06:58:51 PM »

they both use gamemaker don't they?

Yes.
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medieval
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2008, 07:55:53 AM »

My personal favourite is cactus, but both of them are excellent Beer!
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2008, 03:11:12 PM »

I tend to prefer Cactus as I'm a sucker for the Mondo series and shumps in general. Messhof however is still amazing and tends to give off the same kinda vibes I get whenever I play a game by Cactus. But yeah, both are amazing. To Cactus and Messhof  Beer!
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