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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessIndie Games Sales Statistics
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arrogancy
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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2008, 11:24:09 AM »

I didn't say that it wouldn't catch up over time; I was going against the fact that it's "the closest thing to a hit" that XBLA has had for an independent developer. XBLA games make much more than their PC equivalents for the most part and there have been quite a few 'hits.'
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2008, 11:48:27 AM »

No, really, it did! The owner of Behemoth also owns Newsgrounds, the popular Flash site. The budget of Behemoth's games largely comes out of the revenue from that site -- that's how he can afford to spend so much on them. It's indie in the sense that it was created independently buy a guy who funded it himself, but it did have a very, very large budget.

Seriously, did you even bother to search for 'alien hominid budget' in Google? Smiley

http://www.gametunnel.com/articles.php?id=364
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2008, 11:49:30 AM »

Quote
GT: Let's head for the question on everyone's mind. With the budget that AH had, 1.3 Million dollars, many people I meet don't consider this to be an 'indie' game. How do you respond to that statement?

JB- LOL...yeah, we get that a lot too, but it is pretty simple actually. When we were filling out the IGF entry, we decided it was best to put a number which accurately reflected the amount due to all the people who worked on the game as well as the out of pocket expenses. It didn't make sense to us to put up just the out of pocket numbers because that doesn't reflect what the game really cost to make. None of the founders of the Behemoth will see any money until we start seeing royalties. I think what some of the IGF teams will find when they start looking for publishers is that if their stated IGF budget is very low, they will be in a very difficult negotiating situation. On a side note, no intern labor was used in the making of the game.

As for our definition of "indie", that's simple too...indie means no one else had faith in your product so you went out and made the product anyway. An indie product is platform independent. It could be a game, music, film, movie, book, toy, you name it. It means you own and control the IP and no one paid for the development. As far as Alien Hominid is concerned, we paid for 110% of the development of the game ourselves, including non-development things like marketing, trade shows, PR and getting reviewers to review the game. We didn't use any outside money from our distributor O~3 Entertainment, venture capitalists or outside investors, we did it all internally by mortgaging or selling our homes, liquidating savings and the like. Some of the guys even worked side jobs or freelance. In the end the real kudos for this game goes to our wives, girlfriends and kids who bit the bullet with us, stood by us and supported us 100%. For more info about how we made Alien Hominid, check out [the FAQ on the website.]

Tom Fulp: It really irks me when people bring up that IGF number, because none of the founders were paid any salaries for making Alien Hominid and our additional team members are paid back heavily in royalties. I can say without a doubt that we are about as indie as you can get. We worked our butts off for 18 months and gave away our money instead of getting paid.

DP: If putting MORE out of your own pockets on the line somehow makes you LESS indie, then someone needs to explain to me how that works.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 11:52:39 AM by rinkuhero » Logged

december
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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2008, 12:08:31 PM »

Yeah, but Alien Hominid also had a *budget* of over a million dollars (it's funny that people call it an indie game considering that), so it's questionable as to whether it made any money.
I always thought that the budget didn't define what made an indie so much as as people who make the product are the ones in control of it rather than a publisher.

Indie isn't a number.  Indie is unbought and unbossed.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2008, 12:31:38 PM »

Yes, I'm familiar with that definition, I just don't use it myself. If Blizzard and such are indie, the term kind of loses its meaning.
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december
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2008, 01:05:40 PM »

Yes, I'm familiar with that definition, I just don't use it myself. If Blizzard and such are indie, the term kind of loses its meaning.
My general rule is that if the copyright is registered to a company and not to the specific people who made it then it's not independent.  If your work is owned by someone who can bodily merge with Activision you are not independent.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2008, 02:03:57 PM »

I don't think that's a very good rule because copyright is rarely registered, by indies or by mainstream game publishers alike. Only when you see the "R" next to something does it mean it's registered, if you only see the (c) that means it is not a registered copyright. Large game companies very rarely register copyrights, it's not legally needed.

Also, plenty of indies put (c) (their group's name) 20xx on their title screen. My games have (c) RPGCREATIONS 20xx on their title screens, yet RPGCREATIONS is not even registered company yet (I've been meaning to do it though) and I don't think it'd make me not indie if it were registered. Besides, Behemoth *is* a registered company, so your rule would make them not indie in any case.
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arrogancy
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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2008, 04:17:29 AM »

No, really, it did! The owner of Behemoth also owns Newsgrounds, the popular Flash site. The budget of Behemoth's games largely comes out of the revenue from that site -- that's how he can afford to spend so much on them. It's indie in the sense that it was created independently buy a guy who funded it himself, but it did have a very, very large budget.

Seriously, did you even bother to search for 'alien hominid budget' in Google? Smiley

http://www.gametunnel.com/articles.php?id=364

And what you're missing is that the budget is for the console version (GC/PS2), and that budget came from dev kits, licensing, and actually printing up copies. They made their money back then. They actually got a publisher for that.

The XBLA version (Alien Hominid HD) didn't have that budget because they only had to get a 360 dev kit (10k), pay for certification and testing, and submit to Microsoft. The HD XBLA version made ~1.2 mil which was entirely seperate from the earlier console version, which made some unknown amount.

You're confusing Alien Hominid with Alien Hominid HD.
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