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[Derek]

This is the thread where we discuss ECommerce Services, and the pros and cons of each!  Sorry, I'll have a better intro up later.  But for now, just DISCUSS.

BMT Micro

Pros: Reliable service, quick response, good affiliate network
Cons: Payment delay to Eastern Europe and Asia

Pricing Page: https://vendors.bmtmicro.net/newdevelopers/service_tiers.html

Cheapest Plan: 9.5%, $1.25 minimum

Used by: Lexaloffle


Plimus

Pros: Great affiliate network
Cons: Less reliable service, payment delay to Eastern Europe and Asia

Pricing Page: http://www.plimus.com/catlist.jsp?fromRow=30&&catId=7

Average Plan: 10%

Used by: Grubby Games


SWReg

Pricing Page: http://www.swreg.org/pricing.htm

Cheapest Plan: 2.9% + $1, $1.5 minimum (other fees?)

Selling CDs: $8 ea.

Used by: Moonpod, Chronic Logic


RegNow

Pricing Page: http://www.regnow.com/html/pricing.html

Cheapest Plan: 6.9% + $1

Selling CDs: they take 80%?

Used by: Pom Pom


eSellerate

Pros: Good service and support; they send money to Eastern Europe / Asia with no problems
Cons: Small affiliate network

Pricing Page: http://www.esellerate.net/pricing.asp

Basic Plan: 10% (for aggregate sales < $15,000)

Used by: Tee Gee (MAGI)


share*it

Pricing Page: http://www.shareit.com/onecommunity/index.html (link on sidebar)

Plan A: €2.95 + 5%
Plan B: 14.9%, €2.50 minimum

Used by: Oxeye Game Studio (Strategist)


Kagi

Pros: Popular for Mac games

Pricing Page: http://www.kagi.com/kagisolutions/index.php?page=pricing_sw

Cheapest Plan: 2.5% + $1

Used by: Ambrosia Software

[Derek]

Who's used what, heard what about what... on the Indiegamer forums it seems like it basically comes down to BMT Micro and Plimus (Matthew Wegner said about the same in his Indie Bootstrap session at GDC).  But is there any reason why anyone chose one over the other?  Or decided to go with a different service altogether?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

PayPal and Google Checkout aren't really e-commerce services because they don't handle the majority of e-commerce activities (such as, like, fraud protection or automated delivery of a link to the full game or an affiliate system). PayPal is probably a bad idea to use exclusively because there are many countries that PayPal doesn't accept money from yet. And Google Checkout requires that you have a merchant account I believe, which costs about a thousand dollars last I heard.

You also forgot a few, like e-sellerate (I think TeeGee uses that one).

Generally I'm most impressed with BMT-micro, and plan to use them, and already set up an account and did a test-purchase and it seems to work fine.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I actually intended to use Plimus at first, but I had major problems setting up an account (it didn't work correctly), I emailed them about it a week or two ago and they've yet to reply (which doesn't speak well of them), so I went with BMT micro and found signing up and setting it up a breeze.

[Derek]

Cool, thanks, rinkuhero!  I will remove Paypal and Google Checkout from the list.

EDIT: Added eSellerate to the list, too.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Well, some indies use them so I'm not sure if they should be totally excluded, but you have to do a lot more work with them. For instance, I believe hpapillon used PayPal for her games (not sure if she still does), and she manually had to send out links to the full version of the game for everyone who paid, so if she was on vacation or away from the computer they often had to wait a day or two till she got around to it, which is pretty annoying to the buyer not to get it instantly when they buy the game. But it can be done, and if someone only plans on like a few sales a week and doesn't mind manually mailing out links to the full version to every person who buys the game PayPal is an option. But personally I don't like the idea of the player having to wait for me to get to my email before they get the game.

[Derek]

I guess for convenience's sake, I'm going to leave them out.  I want to make this thread primarily for people who are interested in starting a company and making a living (or at least a partial living) from selling games.  For people who just want to sell some games here and there, there are plenty of options.

[ravuya]

We were thinking of Kagi, since it's very popular on the Mac platform (almost all of my younger self's happy days in front of the computer were Kagi-protected shareware games).

For software, their rate is:

Order Size     Standard Fee
$25 and under    2.5% + $1
$25.01 - $100    2.5% + $2
$100 and Over    2.5% + $5

There's also some extra fees if you want to use their copy protection (Universal Mac, Windows, Java) and hosting.

[Derek]

Nice, ravuya!  What's the biggest (most successful, well-known, etc.) game company you can think of that uses Kagi?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

The 2.5% + 1$ seems a bit deceiving -- it's still 7.5% on 20$. So it's not much more nicer than most of the others.

[TeeGee]

From my extremally deepn and comprehensive research made about eCommerce providers (including such modern techniques of gathering data, like chatting with other devs ):

BMTmicro: They are simply the best, but also a bit steeper with pricing. Good affiliate network and excellent support. Not for people from Eastern Europe or Asia though - they send checks there with a 4 months delay ! Would use them, if not the last part.

Plimus: Great affiliate network and slightly cheaper than BMT. However, they are a bit messy and I've heard about them having silly problems every now and then (RinkuHero seems to confirm that). Same thing as with BMT for indies from the east (I believe, haven't checked lately).

eSellerate: Very good pricing (10% without any "minimal x.x$ stuff" for smaller scale indies). Good service and customer support (from my experiences - almost 24/7). Small affiliate network. What's important about them, they send the money to Eastern Europe/Asia without any problems - that's why all the people in Poland use the - me and Codeminion included.

Hope that's useful somehow.

[ravuya]

Nice, ravuya!  What's the biggest (most successful, well-known, etc.) game company you can think of that uses Kagi?

I know Ambrosia use them and have for years and years. So do a bunch of other Mac shareware shops.

From the Kagi front page you can browse through their set of software stores, actually.

BTW, have you talked to Valve about going on Steam? Would be pretty cool, and you certainly have the IGF buzz to go off of. [email protected].

[Oddball]

I've used SetSystems in the past and they were brilliant. Always quick to resolve any issues and went that extra mile to get me up and running. Hell they even sent me a christmas card. I beleive they're part of the Digital River group now though.

[Derek]

Huh, Tee Gee, that is very interesting!

So, from what I'm hearing, it seems to be eSellerate if you're in Eastern Europe or Asia, or BMT Micro or Plimus otherwise, although BMT Micro sounds like it's more reliable overall (if you're willing to pay a little more)... or if you're developing Mac software only, then Kagi?

Nice, ravuya!  What's the biggest (most successful, well-known, etc.) game company you can think of that uses Kagi?

I know Ambrosia use them and have for years and years. So do a bunch of other Mac shareware shops.

Really, they still use it, even now?

BTW, have you talked to Valve about going on Steam? Would be pretty cool, and you certainly have the IGF buzz to go off of. [email protected].

Not yet, but we probably will at some point.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

BMT-Micro is less than Plimus at the minimum (9.5% to 10%), but other than that, that sounds about right to me.

Another note is you don't have to use only one. I have heard that Cliffski has several accounts so that he can switch between them when needs be (and also for their separate affiliate networks).

[ravuya]

Huh, Tee Gee, that is very interesting!

So, from what I'm hearing, it seems to be eSellerate if you're in Eastern Europe or Asia, or BMT Micro or Plimus otherwise, although BMT Micro sounds like it's more reliable overall (if you're willing to pay a little more)... or if you're developing Mac software only, then Kagi?

Nice, ravuya!  What's the biggest (most successful, well-known, etc.) game company you can think of that uses Kagi?

I know Ambrosia use them and have for years and years. So do a bunch of other Mac shareware shops.

Really, they still use it, even now?

It appears that way, even for their Windows titles. I assume Kagi is actively working on their protection library.

[TeeGee]

Huh, Tee Gee, that is very interesting!

So, from what I'm hearing, it seems to be eSellerate if you're in Eastern Europe or Asia, or BMT Micro or Plimus otherwise, although BMT Micro sounds like it's more reliable overall (if you're willing to pay a little more)...

Yup, it pretty much boils down to:
BMTmicro = best service
Plimus = best affiliates
eSelerate = best for Eastern Europe/Asia

BMT-Micro is less than Plimus at the minimum (9.5% to 10%), but other than that, that sounds about right to me.

That's possible. I'm basing my info on research I've done few months ago, so things could change. Still, remember than there are different services for different scale of sales and different methods, so it might be that overall BMT is more expensive.

And yes - it's worth (actually it's almost a must) to sign up with few providers, if you want to be serious with affiliates.

[ravuya]

According to some guy on Joystiq, Aquaria is getting published on Mac by Ambrosia?

Guess you picked Kagi

[Alec]

Also, according to our blog like a month ago.

[Derek]

According to some guy on Joystiq, Aquaria is getting published on Mac by Ambrosia?

Guess you picked Kagi

We're going to publish the PC version ourselves, though.