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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderator: ThemsAllTook)A Question on C#
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« on: May 29, 2007, 11:32:52 PM »

Just wondering if C# is any good as a game development tool.  i already know most of the basics of C++, and when i asked my lecturer on making 2D games, he suggested using C# for its object oriented programming style.

I'm not too keen on learning other languages like Visual Basic and stuff as i don't consider myself a hardcore programmer.  i just program games for fun...sorta.

I've only really made games using actual game engines/development kits (e.g. multimedia fusion, 3D Game Studio).  is it better to stick with a development kit that suites me or is C# a good way to go?
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Derek
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2007, 11:58:26 PM »

Hmmm, you need some clarification, I think.

1. C++ IS object oriented.

2. I wouldn't call MMF, 3d Game Studio "actual" game engines.  In fact, they aren't really engines... just game making software.

3. And as far as I know, C++ is more "hardcore" than Visual Basic, at least for game programming.  I don't think too many people use VB for making games.  (Waits for someone to prove me wrong. Wink)

I don't know about C#, but it's close enough to C++ that if you "know" the basics, you're good.  Although my impression is that you don't "know" C++, you just understand some of the basic ideas behind it, am I correct?

If you just want to make games for fun, continue using MMF, 3d Game Studio, or something else. Smiley
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Alex May
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2007, 03:05:47 PM »

I've done 5 years of professional C++ games programming, and using C# is a nreath of fresh air in terms of getting stuff done, knocking out ideas and stuff. It's very very similar to Java. I haven't used VB so I can't make any comparisons there.

That said, using C# will bind you to .NET 2.0 and Windows XP Service Pack 2. So you alienate a lot of users that way. Supposedly you can run C# under Mono, I haven't tried that. But if your platform is XNA then you really ARE stuck with Windows. TBH if you're making 2D games and you're not already a programmer, I would follow Derek's advice and go with MMF or Game Maker.
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2007, 05:45:56 PM »

lol, my bad.  i'm always getting the software mixed up with the engine...though 3d game studio is a game making engine like the unreal engine or square enix's white engine.  ah right, sorry but i meant C# had a more graphical user interface that makes object oriented programming easier.  damn, i'm forgetting things, thanks for clarifying that.  oh, and i do know C++ somewhat...but i've only gone so far as to making text based games and rogue likes with it.  i'm guessing i need more experience in programming with C++, but i'd rather take that option than continue using mmf.

i stopped using mmf cos i just found it too restricting.  the events programming concept is great, but some of the conditions and actions available kinda felt like their targetted audience are meant to be kids.  there are workarounds, but i couldn't be bothered since i'd find conflicts between my main programming and mmf's default systems.  i haven't tried mmf2 though...are there any major differences between the two?

i did make a simple platform engine with mmf that turned out pretty well though.  it had enemies with simple AI, moving/passable platforms, menus, dialogue boxes, etc.  if i can find it then maybe i'll upload it somewhere for some mmf/mmf2 guys to check out.

but that's a good point haowan...i never thought of that.  but i am a programmer (or i should say, i can program), and if there's something i don't know, i usually learn up about it.  i'm just not a professional one, so i definitely don't know everything.  u guys know of any tutorials, books or resources for intermediate level C++ games programming?  i'm kinda getting sick of only knowing how to program text based games.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 06:16:52 PM by Outer God » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 06:09:14 PM »

If you know C++ and want to get away from text adventures, next step would be picking a graphics library to work with.

Allegro is usually a nice place to start for doing 2D stuff. It also provides simple ways to access input routines and other things.

Then there's DirectX or OpenGL for 3D / hardware accelerated 2D.

Basically there isn't really one tutorial for what to do next, because you have a lot of options available to you.
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2007, 06:25:26 PM »

allegro and openGL...thanks, i'll definitely read up on those.  i think i'll stay away from 3D games programming atm.  my last project with 3D game studio almost destroyed me Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2007, 07:07:01 PM »

Hey there!
I'm not much of a coder but not so long ago, while in college, my friends and I made a bit of research on game progamming. We looked at various programming tools an languages.  And, don't take this as an absolute truth, it's been about 3 years since I talked about coding tools with my fellow coder friends so I might be wrong on somethings. Here's what I remember.

 C++ is the strongest of them all. You can do what you want when you want. Problem is, you gotta do it. Good coding skills are reuqired to really perform with C++. You have to take care of the memory allocation and watch out with you pointers. This can lead to obscure errors that'll make you loose some time on debugging rather than developping.

 C# is an evolution of C++. Basically, it's as powerful as C++ but also combines elements from JAVA and VB. It's also easier to use Dlls and to manage the "versioning" of an application. I can't remember the details on why it's easier tho Sad

  Visual basic is what I call a "casual coder" language. It's easy to pick up and you can create any kind of sandard application you want in no time. Problem is, games are not like standard application. With VB, you cna create games but don't expect to make them very elaborated. VB is aimed for windows application so if your game doesn't fit in the windows standard, you better look for something else.
But, if you're going for a mine sweeper or a card game, you can easily do that with VB. As I said, it's not impossible but don't expect too much from it.

 The best way to go is C# since it's the one that gives you the most advantages. You can code in C++ and have access to numerous features that weren't included in Visual C and it's entirely direct X compatible. If I remmeber well, the .Net framwork is free to download from Microsoft and you can find some open source development environments, such as SharpDevelopper (http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/)

Hope this helps a bit.
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2007, 07:13:07 PM »

Not sure that C# is used much in commercial games. The most common language is still C/C++. The impression I get is that C# is bloaty or slow, but I don't know that I have hard data to back that up.
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2007, 01:01:08 AM »

Not sure that C# is used much in commercial games. The most common language is still C/C++. The impression I get is that C# is bloaty or slow, but I don't know that I have hard data to back that up.

Here you are:

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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2007, 01:28:00 AM »

He doesn't look hard enough in that pic.
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DrDerekDoctors
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2007, 01:52:56 AM »

I'll be honest, I forgot that you'd mentioned "hard data" and just remembered "data" and so when I came to post it I thought "aah, fuck it." and posted it anyway. Tongue
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Me, David Williamson and Mark Foster do an Indie Games podcast. Give it a listen. And then I'll send you an apology.
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2007, 02:11:55 AM »



Totally badass.
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Derek
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2007, 02:19:40 AM »

He doesn't look hard enough in that pic.

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Alec
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2007, 02:20:05 AM »

Thank you. <3
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Guert
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2007, 05:06:02 AM »

Yeah, now I remember someone telling me that when you code in c#, you have bigger files because of all the stuff they added. This means that instead of only carrying what you need, you have to carry files and other stuff you don't really need.

Thanks alot Alec!
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2007, 09:55:05 AM »

He doesn't look hard enough in that pic.



I never saw that one... arriving  :D

Bill
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2007, 04:55:57 PM »

He doesn't look hard enough in that pic.



lol, i just saw the gun in his pocket...that's just wrong.  i guess my choice is clear, i'll stick with good ol' C++.  thanks fellas Smiley

though for smaller games i might give mmf another go or maybe try mmf2.
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Alex May
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2007, 02:07:57 AM »

Try Java, and if you don't like it then don't bother with C#.
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2007, 02:22:13 AM »

C# is a really nice language and microsoft has lately tried to target the kind of developer that would hang around a forum like this.

You can download Visual Studio Express Edition and XNA Game Studio Express http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/game/

So far I've only used C# in business related .NET projects making ordering systems and document administration stuff so I can't speak for how useful the XNA Game Studio is.
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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2007, 02:35:19 AM »

java?  i thought that was only for mobile phone games and small applications.  are there any fairly large games that have been made using java?

ah, XNA.  that uses C#, right?  from wat i've heard, it does sound promising, but has anyone really used it for making games?  i'm sure people have, but i haven't heard of any games being made using XNA...that, or i'm completely oblivious.  my bet's on the latter :D
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