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[Nate Kling]

  It's also very important (when your learnging the human figure) to be able to first have a grasp at forms and proportion.  My whole figure drawing class last year at the university was almost all exclusively forms and quick sketches and only 3 drawings out of the whole semester were we allowed to make a shaded and complete drawing. Sketching people just walking around or sitting at a bus stop is a really good way to practice this since you will be forced to draw quickly and just get the gesture.  It sounds like this would not help, I was skeptical as well but it skyrocketed my skill level more than any other method of practicing I had done.  It also helps to draw a stickfigure-like skeleton first for a drawing to get the feel of the pose, that way you can plan out the pose and composition for your drawing more easily and it will help you create a more interesting drawing.  Also when I say stickfigure skeleton I dont mean one of those stick figures everyone draws I mean lines representing bone structure such as the rib cage, the skull and the curve of the spine, etc.  I'll try uploading some example pics when i get to a computer I can draw on.  Keep uploading pictures so we can see your progression.

Side Note:  We should start a daily sketch thread to try and keep everyone accountable.  That way everyone can post one sketch a day or every other day and if someone doesnt post in a while... Derek will have his way with him .

[michael]

i second that

[jonny]

I'd also like to chime in that drawing is not like riding a bike... it's something that you have to practice regularly to stay sharp.  I learned this one the hard way.

Darn...

As someone who can't draw at all (but who's trying to learn how), my current belief is that consistent perspective is one of the most important aspects of a drawing. If you look at a two year old's drawing it obviously seems wrong, and to me the main reason for that is the perspective isn't consistent, i.e., "You shouldn't be able to see that part of the arm from this angle", or "I'm seeing the face from the front view but the nose from an angle..."

This is probably something that is very obvious to most people, but when I discovered it for myself it really helped me. When I drew something that perhaps maybe a 13 year old might be proud of (not to put down the 13 year olds, I'm sure many of them are actually quite talented), instead of getting discouraged I tried to identify which parts of the drawing made it look 13 year old-esque. Once I fixed those flaws it looked half-way decent.

Just my fraction of a cent...

[Hideous]

I can see you've watched Dr. Horrible.

[ImaginaryThomas]

Who hasn't!?

As someone who can't draw at all (but who's trying to learn how), my current belief is that consistent perspective is one of the most important aspects of a drawing. If you look at a two year old's drawing it obviously seems wrong, and to me the main reason for that is the perspective isn't consistent, i.e., "You shouldn't be able to see that part of the arm from this angle", or "I'm seeing the face from the front view but the nose from an angle..."

This is probably something that is very obvious to most people, but when I discovered it for myself it really helped me. When I drew something that perhaps maybe a 13 year old might be proud of (not to put down the 13 year olds, I'm sure many of them are actually quite talented), instead of getting discouraged I tried to identify which parts of the drawing made it look 13 year old-esque. Once I fixed those flaws it looked half-way decent.

Interesting way of looking at it. You should post you work here too!

Sketching people just walking around or sitting at a bus stop is a really good way to practice this since you will be forced to draw quickly and just get the gesture.  It sounds like this would not help, I was skeptical as well but it skyrocketed my skill level more than any other method of practicing I had done.  It also helps to draw a stickfigure-like skeleton first for a drawing to get the feel of the pose, that way you can plan out the pose and composition for your drawing more easily and it will help you create a more interesting drawing.  Also when I say stickfigure skeleton I dont mean one of those stick figures everyone draws I mean lines representing bone structure such as the rib cage, the skull and the curve of the spine, etc.  I'll try uploading some example pics when i get to a computer I can draw on.  Keep uploading pictures so we can see your progression.

I don't know how well people will take to someone drawing them at the bus stop but I'll give it a shot. I've heard people say to draw from a picture or TV is not the same as real life for some reason. would you agree or not?

Side Note:  We should start a daily sketch thread to try and keep everyone accountable.  That way everyone can post one sketch a day or every other day and if someone doesnt post in a while... Derek will have his way with him .

I agree!

Concerning hiding in the bushes, I tend to draw people (usually the professor) in class. Most the time I'm impartial but I'll draw the cute ones as I see fit . Make sure you bring a thick 6B pencil or a sharpie for quickly blotting out what you don't want people to see .

I'm out of school and in the wonderful world of web development work so my drawing time is confined to weekend and evenings and the only one to draw is the fiance. I'll have to set up shop in the park nearby.

Lastly, you say you want to find a medium to express your creativity. Drawing is a traditional and rigid medium. If you want to get good at drawing you need to practice till your eyes pop up. What I love about indy games is it proves what non-artists can do with a very visual medium. There so many indy games that don't necessarily have great graphics or good artwork yet are incredibly aesthetic. Obviously, mastering the medium will take practice, but I tend to find it much
less forgiving than drawing. Not to say you should give up drawing or anything, but you really should consider indy games as just another expressive medium.

I figured I had the coding background for gaming down I just needed the art. That's why im pushing to get myself to be more aesthetically minded and better at drawing to make the visuals as beautiful as the code. What you said is very though provoking though, perhaps I should gear my art in the directions of games only instead of a jack of all trades approach.

[ImaginaryThomas]

More sketches I just did. Tried to loosen them up.

[neon]

you are suffering from

FORMULA DISEASE.

 

stop drawing people's heads as a circle with a manga-shaped outline built up from that.

stop drawing people's bodies as dubiously shaped outlines which betray no real form underneath.

draw people's musculature and skeletons, and focus on being as true to that as you can.  don't even put clothes on people yet.

only then will you be cured..

because if you don't do this:

you will only be able to draw people in this "style" forever, and won't have the freedom to incorporate new concepts and styles into your drawings, because your knowledge of musculature, anatomy, perspective, line weight, form, cheesecake, etc. is gimped.

do YOURSELF a favor and

STOP DRAWING THINGS THE SAME.

in fact, draw them as weirdly and differently as you can.  the first step to learning something new is unlearning all the shitty habits you gave yourself before.

do this, and you shall be cured.  unfortunately, you will have drawn so much that you will look like a mixture of  ,  ,  and  but that's ok.

also google andrew loomis figure drawing for all it's worth and DOWNLOAD THAT SHIT.

(actually:  http://acid.noobgrinder.com/Loomis/) and grab that right quick

i hope this didn't come off mean to you, but the red font means "listen to me because i'm having the same problem".

[sereneworx]

Also, try some stuff with a pen. You can't erase, so you'll think more about what you draw.

[ImaginaryThomas]

Don't worry Neon, I'm looking for brash criticism. Didn't take it as mean. 

I got those books from the link you provided and I'll check them out when I get home tonight.

I know I have the formula disease It's really REALLY hard to break because it's like a comfort zone thing. I agree I really have to break this. I'll try your advice to draw as weirdly as I can and anything else you can offer to break me of my comfort zone would be helpful!

[Nate Kling]

While it does seem like your sticking to a formula I would like to compliment you on your forms.  I think these drawings have some really nice things in them.  A lot of people make the chest area look really flat but on most of these you have  a pretty decent shape and some nice depth.  I think another problem your having is continuing the line that defines his torso past where his arm connects.  This is making it look like his arm is flat and too far back.  Arms are round so when you draw a straight line where it connects it shows that its flat.  You definitely have a lot of potential and I think that that style is interesting but like neon said, if you don't learn to draw realistic you wont be able to experiment with styles.  When you can draw things realistically then you will be able to make a certain style look even better since all styles must be grounded in reality.  Its not bad to make guide lines for the head, the only problem is is that yours is not the right proportions for a normal human skull.  Also, you don't have to sketch at a bus stop you can go anywhere, I like to just sit in public places where there are a lot of people so they cant tell your drawing them.  I wouldn't feel comfortable either just staring at people at a bus stop, I just meant anywhere really.  About drawing from real life or from a picture: I found that while drawing from a picture is not bad I think drawing from life really helps to rework the way you see things.  In a picture everything is in focus and you can clearly see physical lines but in real life it doesn't look quite  the same.  But drawing from pictures is very very good to practice as well.  I forgot to post up some example skeletons for you to try but i promise ill get right on that, i don't have internet at my apartment right now so its really annoying.

[Chris Whitman]

you are suffering from

YELLING FOR NO REASON.

Seriously.

I know you are trying to be helpful and probably do not have bad intentions, but that message really reads like you believe he is too stupid to understand anything not in bright colours and 20 point font.

[Chris Whitman]

Just... you know, be cool.

[ImaginaryThomas]

No need to give neon the business. I need a push anyways neon's being a great help.

Speaking of which I did some homework tonight and tried focusing on limbs and structure and whatnot. It's probably nothing special but it's a step in the right direction for me:

Legs


Arms


Heads

[Nate Kling]

Hey nice progress there! That is a step in the right direction. You have a much nicer meatier arms and and legs now.  The next step is to look closer.  Human arms aren't stuffed with a football.  They have muscles.  Look at how the bicep and tricep relate to each other and the shape of the forearm.  I still have trouble with the forearm muscles.  Your starting to get the idea though.  Shoulders are a bit more pointy at the end and let it sit on top of the bicep not stop before it.  But all in all, very good progress, although I think your weakest point right now would be the feet, but don't worry they will come, I always think fit are really hard.  Oh and here are some skeletons that i usually draw when quickly sketching people or roughing out a pose.  Im sure the proportions aren't 100 percent accurate because I just did it quickly off the top of my head but it should give you an idea of what to try.  The rib cage is very important and really helps you give the body enough thickness and depth.

[Chris Whitman]

There are some really excellent artist's anatomy books around: you could probably find one at your local art store. If you want to draw realistic figures, being able to determine the positioning and forms of the skeleton, the musculature and the surface forms is vital.

Drawing little ovals is a great way to quickly work out poses and the general gesture of the figure, but if you want to get a realistic rendering, you will need to start tackling the above things instead of just tracing over your initial sketch. Think about the places where bones are near to the surface, the placement, direction and tension of the muscles and the general way fat and skin are positioned over top of them. Particularly if you're drawing from your imagination, this will allow you to make sure the figure you are drawing is believable.

I mean, my figure drawing is pretty abysmal, but that is the general principal, anyway.

[Cymon]

You improvement since the start of the thread is noticeable, considering the short time you've been at it. You've started a ball rolling and you need to keep it up or you'll revert to your old calcified ways.

The more your break your style and cure your "formula disease" (I actually like that term) the better you'll be.

[neon]

you are suffering from

YELLING FOR NO REASON.

Seriously.

I know you are trying to be helpful and probably do not have bad intentions, but that message really reads like you believe he is too stupid to understand anything not in bright colours and 20 point font.

heh, that's because i'm having many of the same problems as him.  i guess my enthusiasm went overboard then.  however, accusing me of condescending to him strikes me as a little funny, especially when your message comes off a little bit the same way.  so, yeah.  kick in the ass received, will stop using RIDICULOUSCOLORSALLTHETIME.

Just... you know, be cool.

duly noted.


anyway, back on topic, formula disease is the first thing to break, i think.
how?
i'm working on this as well at the moment, so i'll try to think of things but they may not be so effective.

- draw things that you don't normally draw.  don't draw people.  draw a boot.  draw a car.  draw a tree.

- draw in different ways.  use really big, long lines, use stippling, use big fat markers, use little skinny makers, dip your hair in ink and headbutt the canvas, whatever.. but change it up.

- the loomis books show different ways to draw than you're doing right now, and i'm going to quote one of the books for you right now in terms of your drawing style - "...it takes an extremely skilled artist to draw things by the outlines only.  you have to construct and build forms."

right now, i would take some time out to start working through the loomis books.  i started with Fun With a Pencil and you may want to or you might not want to, but the thing is that these books are the best i have found for learning anatomy and drawing technique.

the new stuff looks better, and the middle leg on the page of ...legs is 

keep going!

[ImaginaryThomas]

Thanks for the encouragement and pointers!

I've kind of been down for the count for the past few days so I haven't done anything new yet (Also, my entry for the demake contest may never reach its end ) . I hope to do some practicing over the weekend and I'll update you all on my progress.

[ImaginaryThomas]

Nothing worth posting with my anatomy drawing... it's really hard to do but im practicing .

But to show I'm not giving up yet, here's some doodles.

[neon]

you know, anything is worth posting, no matter how shit you think it is.  posting it here will probably help you progress faster, if anything.