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[Blademasterbobo]

the arena could have worked; what didn't work in practice was their shitty implementation. i think before they bother trying to balance the items / stats / dmg types in mp, they need to fix the serious flaws with how it works (or doesn't work, 90% of the time)

[SundownKid]

p.s. idk where this that the game doesn't explain stats came from. just press select on your status screen or any item description screen and presto

It's not that the game doesn't explain what they do, but there is no way to respec if you screw up, and it doesn't give you many pointers on where, exactly, to spend your souls besides throwing a bunch of numbers at you. You should be able to pay a level-dependent amount of souls to free up all your stat points and create a new build, otherwise there is a high possibility that the build you do initially will be crap. Sure, it's fine for the hardcore guys who can do a  new character, but yeah.

[s0]

they could make the respecs limited per game, like the ephemeral eye stones in demon's souls.

[Dragonmaw]

ephemeral eye stones aren't limited in demon's souls.

[Ben_Hurr]

p.s. idk where this that the game doesn't explain stats came from. just press select on your status screen or any item description screen and presto

It tells you what they do in general, but not the really important aspects of how they work.
Like how much damage does 1 point of str/dex/fth/int add to your weapon if applicable?  How much does 1 point of fth/int improve your magic adjustment?  What spells DO scale with magic adjustment in the first place, and in what way?

And good luck figuring out for yourself how much DEF you need to reduce x amount of damage, and thus how much that piece of armor is worth to you. 

[Bandages]

p.s. idk where this that the game doesn't explain stats came from. just press select on your status screen or any item description screen and presto

It tells you what they do in general, but not the really important aspects of how they work.
Like how much damage does 1 point of str/dex/fth/int add to your weapon if applicable?  How much does 1 point of fth/int improve your magic adjustment?  What spells DO scale with magic adjustment in the first place, and in what way?

And good luck figuring out for yourself how much DEF you need to reduce x amount of damage, and thus how much that piece of armor is worth to you. 

  I hate playing games that way, personally.

I like how you just wear whatever looks cool/weighs less/has more DEF in Dark Souls. I didn't need to know if str was making my sword do 2 extra damage, I was just swinging my sword around and killing shit.

Minmaxing is more important for PvP I suppose, and I never got around to that

[SundownKid]

I like how you just wear whatever looks cool/weighs less/has more DEF in Dark Souls. I didn't need to know if str was making my sword do 2 extra damage, I was just swinging my sword around and killing shit.

But if everyone plays like that, is there really any point to having such a detailed stat system? The way I see it, Dark Souls is supposed to be intuitive and realistic, it doesn't have numbers popping up, quest beacons or other crap, and yet it has a complex series of stats that is anything but realistic. IMO, the developers should go in the direction of making the game more immersive to play, not making cool looking weapons and armor have these arbitrary stat values.

[s0]

no the way the stat system works is great because it breaks away from the "buy the weapon with highest numbers and call it a day" bs that so many rpgs fall into. if anything souls is one of the few rpgs where stats are NOT arbitrary.

they really just need to remove resistance, make damage types actually matter and add a respec option then it's all good.

[SundownKid]

no the way the stat system works is great because it breaks away from the "buy the weapon with highest numbers and call it a day" bs that so many rpgs fall into. if anything souls is one of the few rpgs where stats are NOT arbitrary.

they really just need to remove resistance, make damage types actually matter and add a respec option then it's all good.

But the problem is that the weapons ARE conforming to that - as was mentioned by one of the top Dark Souls players, most of the weapons are putting the player at a disadvantage because of their low power. There are some weapons that are just better than others, and not necessarily rare, though they tend to be. They need to be truly balanced (or at least upgradeable to be balanced) in order to make the game better overall. For example, can you really say Balder Side Sword is on the same level as the other rapiers, factoring in its high attack and special move? It's far better for PVP than something like Ricard's.

Same thing with the armor - it's very traditional "this armor has better stats than that one", except you can get the armor early in the game. There needs to be better customization of armor.

[s0]

the weapons are never going to be perfectly balanced, that's almost impossible unless they're purely cosmetic. also weapon balance has nothing to do with the actual mechanics of the stat system.

i didn't mean that some gear isn't better than other gear but that you have an actual incentive to use different gear in different situations unlike 95% of other rpgs.

also iirc you were talking about removing stats to make the game more immersive and realistic and now you're talking about balacing stats for pvp (i.e. making the game a better e-sport) which has nothing to do with realism or immersion whatsoever. real life weapons aren't balanced either.

[Raptor85]

i didn't mean that some gear isn't better than other gear but that you have an actual incentive to use different gear in different situations unlike 95% of other rpgs.

That's one thing i love about dark souls, most gear has tradeoffs so you don't get like almost every other multiplayer rpg where everyone's in the exact same gear once they reach "endgame", there IS an exception to that though, for casting builds pretty much everyone uses dusks hat since it's the only hat in the game that provides damage boost to spells, and on that type of build you wouldn't have the weight available to wear much heavier hats anyways so the def loss is minimal, and the masks for pretty much anyone on a poise stacking character who's NOT cosplaying.  Honestly I wish all the items that granted anything outside of just stats weren't in the game and they just left that kind of stuff to the ring slots.

As for BSS being better in pvp, that's hogwash, it's on the same level as the rapiers in able hands, and doesnt have the advantage of quick counter pokes and the surprisingly long range like the rapier or estoc. (which actually makes it quite a bit easier to dodge imho)  9/10 if the weapon has more damage in dark souls it's tradeoff is either range, weight, scaling, or attack speed, dark souls just has SOOO many more factors than pure damage and that's why you see such a huge variety of weapons being used in pvp. (it's not quite as important in pvm due to dumb AI, in the single player you could beat the game using nothing but the hilt pretty easily).  For instance the estoc looks better than the rapier in every way, longer range, more damage, same speed....but it also weighs twice as much, and while that might not matter on a sl 120 endurance stacked character it DOES matter on a hybrid caster as the extra weight can easily mean the difference between either not having the 31 poise break or having to midroll to get it, plus it uses 1 more point in str to be able to use making the rapier actually more ideal on many builds.

[Nathan Cash]

I like challenging games, and even trial and error, the problem with this is it has no system. Its like IWBTG in the way that it trolls you until you know what to do after 50+ hours of gameplay. I like Spelunky because it is hard but once you learn how something works dying by it is your fault. That said I've never even played either one  

[Blademasterbobo]

then why bother posting

[ink.inc]

That said I've never even played either one 

then what the fuck is your point

[TeeGee]

no the way the stat system works is great because it breaks away from the "buy the weapon with highest numbers and call it a day" bs that so many rpgs fall into. if anything souls is one of the few rpgs where stats are NOT arbitrary.

I strongly disagree. DkS stats are horrible precisely because they are completely arbitrary, with no balance or sense to them. Like Endurance, which gives you Stamina. But only up until 40. Then it doesn't. Or Attunement. It opens spell slots on arbitrary levels and does nothing on most others. Because reasons. Or Strength and Dexterity, which do nothing unless you happen to have a an arbitrarily picked weapon that scales with them. And about that weapon -- it does 100 damage, but it's actually less than that other weapon with 75, because it has B in scaling. It's still a numbers game, just made more obtuse.

DkS gear is great and doesn't fall into "buy the weapon with highest numbers and call it a day" because weapons have different movesets, range, poise break, additional features, and overall utility, not because of the stats. The stats in themselves look like something an amateur designer would do in their first pen & paper rpg system. No rhyme or reason to it.

[s0]

Or Strength and Dexterity, which do nothing unless you happen to have a an arbitrarily picked weapon that scales with them.

what's "arbitrary" about that lol

[HöllenKobold]

welcome to conventional game design. leave your premise out at the door.

[ink.inc]

they call me skeletor

[gimymblert]

What does skeletor do the sword of he man?

[SundownKid]

real life weapons aren't balanced either.

Welcome to real life, where stabbing someone with my E-stat-scaling sword will do a lot less damage than stabbing someone with my A-stat-scaling sword. Sure, it might have a tenuous connection to reality and skill with weaponry, but it's still pretty darn arbitrary.