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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesDark Souls and Bloodborne
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« Reply #5900 on: February 03, 2016, 08:41:50 AM »

My PS3 was never able to patch games (I could download fine, but it would hang during patching), so I played DS1 most of the way through unpatched. It was miserable.  I got it on PC later (since I knew I'd be sunsetting my PS3 and wanted to finally beat DS1) and played through and oh my god it was easier. 
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« Reply #5901 on: February 03, 2016, 09:16:30 AM »

I had Dks1 on ps3 so didn't ever have the cheater problem from PC.  The random invasions and randomly being invaded in dks1 was honestly the highlight of the game to me, i had more fun with that than anything else in years, last game that pulled me in that much was pre-ren UO.  I guess more than anything the complete lack of random invasions in dks2 killed the game for me, the game itself was super easy and without the threat of invasion it was just boring imho. (launch week on first playthrough i never got invaded nor was able to sucessfully invade a single time, and was only able to find co-op once...it was only later i learned about the soul counter mechanic for matchmaking and that there wasn't any point to stop leveling up like there was in dks1/bbourne/demons.

I loved making themed builds in dks1 for invasions, I have stalker builds for invading blighttown where i have all poison/toxic weapons and rag armor and it was just a blast to chase people through the rafters running through there. Also a lizard general build for sens funhouse.
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« Reply #5902 on: February 03, 2016, 09:28:39 AM »

I'm not really the PvP kinda guy in any game, but I love it in Bloodborne. It's intense and exciting and I never see cheaters (since it's on PS4 only). In Dark Souls 1, Silber is definitely right. Every time I got invaded I sighed because I knew it was just gonna be some prick trying to get a rise out of me by cheating. Usually I'd just let them kill me without any attempt to defend myself. Dark Souls 2 I don't think was thaaaaat bad. A lot less cheaters in my experience. Online play in Dark Souls 2 was badly designed though, for sure. Soul Memory is terrible.

For whatever it's worth, there is "PvP watchdog" mod for DkS1 which detects cheater invaders and lets you to send them home by press of button (but only cheater invaders). Also shows how many p2p connections you have. Made coop and forest pvp much more enjoyable for me and my friend.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 10:22:35 AM by Tumetsu » Logged

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« Reply #5903 on: February 03, 2016, 09:30:25 AM »

i also had dark souls 1 on ps3 first, but i had the same connectivity issues as with the GFWL pc version. i did get some pvp action, but not a lot. maybe it's because of the p2p nature of the matchmaking and there not being a lot of players in my region? idk.
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« Reply #5904 on: February 03, 2016, 10:16:24 AM »

My pvp saga:

In Demon's I hardly did much pvp, I played it after DkS and the pvp just seemed like a downgrade mechanically (too much grass!). Also when I played the same guy kept invading with an un-upgraded storm ruler and doing the knockdown attack on me over and over in a corner. I dunno if there's a way to get out of it but it was pretty lame regardless.

I was REALLY heavy into pvp for a long time in DkS1. My absolute favorite thing to do was end up in a 2v1 or 3v1 situation and somehow win. It's best when the guys are obviously deliberately in a gank setup and not just trying to run through (characterized by high quantities of glow stones on the ground and general waiting near the entrance). I'll admit that my victories were rare but nothing can quite beat the feeling + the subsequent hatemail from 2-3 guys. I used a lot of stuff but I think I was best at dead-angling with claymore and just parrying everything. Parrying two guys at the same time is really cool too (though you can only riposte one of them unless it glitches up). As a side note, I was not a giantdad since I thought all of those masks looked idiotic and the armor made you look humongous. In DkS3 I hope the best armor also looks cool too (or even better, several armors are tied for best depending on what you're going for)

Dark Souls 2 felt a little less 'tight' engine-wise, it was still fun but I'd been doing pvp for a while at that point and all the little annoyances of peer-to-peer started to add up. phantom hits, wonky backstabs, teleporting, and so on really took a lot of the strategy out of it. Happened in the original too, I had just grown tired of putting up with it by then. Once I figured out how mundane worked I immediately did some testing to find the weapon that had the most hits and started using Santier's Spear before that became a 'thing'. (I also tried mundane dagger and fists but they were meh) I was surprised several weeks in when it became commonplace and people would criticize me for having a generic build That weapon was a lot of fun though and I wish more weapons had crazy movesets like that (I thought it was relatively balanced too since like all of its attacks were parry fodder) I think mundane in general is a dumb mechanic though, it forces you to have a non-specialized build and with the soul memory system it just meant 'keep leveling up and get even more generic'. Later on I also had a greater magic shield + 2hand poison butterfly shield thing goin' on but again soul memory ruined it, there was a sweetspot where I was actually fighting people my level and then it got to where everyone had too much poison resistance for it to even matter. Sigh...

Bloodborne pvp is probably the worst for me because of the unpunishable speed at which you can pop a blood vial. BUT it does kind of evolve into a game of conserving your blood vials because unless someone lands a lucky hit someone's going to use all 20+ throughout the course of a duel. Because of that it feels a little slower and defensive, which is very weird considering bloodborne's design philosophy. I could be wrong about this though, this is just from the handful of matches I've played since I was more interested in the pve in bloodborne.
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« Reply #5905 on: February 03, 2016, 10:24:01 AM »

i also had dark souls 1 on ps3 first, but i had the same connectivity issues as with the GFWL pc version. i did get some pvp action, but not a lot. maybe it's because of the p2p nature of the matchmaking and there not being a lot of players in my region? idk.
The mod I mentioned on PC explicitly showed how many potential players you were connected. Sometimes it didn't connect at all and game had to be restarted so there definitely is some random problems with it.
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« Reply #5906 on: February 03, 2016, 11:15:49 AM »

i played demon's souls when it was new and i also played on the asian servers (i have the asian version of the game). the pvp culture was very different from what dark souls grew into, especially since the pc port came out. with dks it seems invasions are pretty much 100% about trolling/griefing. in DeS you could actually get decent duels and shit occasionally.

Quote
The mod I mentioned on PC explicitly showed how many potential players you were connected. Sometimes it didn't connect at all and game had to be restarted so there definitely is some random problems with it.

cool, will try it next time i play.
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« Reply #5907 on: February 03, 2016, 11:36:26 AM »

i played demon's souls when it was new and i also played on the asian servers (i have the asian version of the game). the pvp culture was very different from what dark souls grew into, especially since the pc port came out. with dks it seems invasions are pretty much 100% about trolling/griefing. in DeS you could actually get decent duels and shit occasionally.

I noticed that the amount of players taking the lore and the game seriously is usually higher in asia than in other part of the world. My Pvp experience was usually more interesting in Asia than in Europe. (any game included)

And it's possible that it's linked to the fact that younger players access to m rated game tends to be more difficult. Especially  in Korea where you need your social card to identify yourself for online games.
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« Reply #5908 on: February 03, 2016, 01:32:58 PM »

DS2 just needed one area that re-connected everything. This is more or less what DS1 had, with the valley of the drakes. Take the valley out, and Dark Souls 1 is muuuuch more branch-like.

The doors of pharros should have been that area. Imagine that little maze of tunnels being right underneath the world, Pharros lockstones used to block the various entrances. It would have made it much more active as a PvP area too, instead of being some side area you may or may not stumble upon. If you find enough lockstones early on you can get to some areas early, etc.

Wonder if that might have been an early idea before the game "started over" in a new direction. It kind of feels like it might have been.

Obviously this wouldnt have fixed everything, but I think it would have improved the game's feeling of exploration by a lot, made it feel less abstract, less like just a series of battle gauntlets.

That said, I feel a lot of the sentiments around DS2 are hyperbole. Its not quite as good as the first, but its still one of the best games I've played.
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« Reply #5909 on: February 03, 2016, 03:12:43 PM »

i dunno, dark souls 1 does a lot of other stuff as well. darkroot garden and basin connect quite a few areas as well. the main thing dks1 has over 2 are multiple paths leading in and out of many areas. the distance models and etc, being able to see places from afar also adds a lot of cohesion to the world. they "cheated" a little on the scale and positioning but it's close enough that you don't notice while playing. dark souls 2 tries some of that stuff as well, but due to the "patchwork" nature of the world, most of the heights, sizes and distances of the distance models just obviously don't make any sense.

this + the very rigid "branching path" structure make the world feel a lot less "organic". bloodborne for instance is a lot more linear than dark souls 1, but the branches it has actually make sense within the context of the setting. dks2 it just feels like a bunch of unrelated levels strung together.

i mean, the team did a respectable job considering what they had to work with, but still.
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« Reply #5910 on: February 03, 2016, 03:55:00 PM »

dks2's level design suffers just as much as the overall world layout too. you can tell level connections had to be rejiggered later because so many areas basically contribute nothing (there's a ton of unnecessary offshoots and weird side areas with randomass loot), and most things in a given level feel strewn about without much  attention paid to creating interesting encounters or differentiating the action from other areas. every mob feels like it could basically be any elsewhere, whereas dks1 and bloodborne design their levels with specific enemies and combat encounters in mind (e.g. skeleton clusterfucks being unique to the catacombs, garden of eyes enemies only appearing at bygenwerth).

obviously though most of this can be blamed on the development troubles, and the team definitely knew what went wrong. i believe a lot of the "b team" worked on bborne's dlc and i think that's some good indication that they know their shit when a project that isn't completely borked from the jump. the usual dks2 b team comments are pretty shitty

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« Reply #5911 on: February 03, 2016, 04:17:19 PM »

My pvp saga:

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« Reply #5912 on: February 03, 2016, 05:56:45 PM »

Quote
Bloodborne pvp is probably the worst for me because of the unpunishable speed at which you can pop a blood vial. BUT it does kind of evolve into a game of conserving your blood vials because unless someone lands a lucky hit someone's going to use all 20+ throughout the course of a duel. Because of that it feels a little slower and defensive, which is very weird considering bloodborne's design philosophy. I could be wrong about this though, this is just from the handful of matches I've played since I was more interested in the pve in bloodborne.

in my experience bloodborne pvp involves a lot of trading blows and shit like that.

i think bloodborne is just more designed for pve than pvp. the combat dynamic is based around asymmetry, i.e. most enemies hit much harder than you, but you can recoup some of your health via the regain mechanic. once you get 2 players with symmetrical abilities, shit starts getting tedious.
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« Reply #5913 on: February 03, 2016, 06:27:16 PM »

has this been posted yet? new leaked footage of Fabric Simulator 3 : http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/02/04/new-dark-souls-3-gameplay-footage-leaked

this honestly seems like it was targeted directly at me: kick is back, ragdoll bodies is back, and the water looks alright. i basically dont need to see anymore, day one purchase.

textures look pretty bad though. so its a demons souls throwback!
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« Reply #5914 on: February 03, 2016, 06:31:59 PM »

For whatever it's worth, there is "PvP watchdog" mod for DkS1 which detects cheater invaders and lets you to send them home by press of button (but only cheater invaders). Also shows how many p2p connections you have. Made coop and forest pvp much more enjoyable for me and my friend.

Yeah, that mod was a godsend for co-op. Co-op is so finnicky that knowing how many nodes we had helped a lot. It does help for PvP too, of course, but I wouldn't use it when comparing the games since it's a mod.

Bloodborne pvp is probably the worst for me because of the unpunishable speed at which you can pop a blood vial.

I disagree about the blood vial issue specifically for three major reasons:
1. You can parry someone while they drink it making them extremely vulnerable so they have to time it really well.
2. They're vulnerable in general while healing. If you play your cards right you can take out much more damage than they're gaining in health by drinking it.
3. I think bloodborne is so fast paced already that if player's didn't have as much of a chance to heal as they do now, then battles would be over insanely fast.
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« Reply #5915 on: February 04, 2016, 02:31:41 AM »

Also, no backstabs. This alone makes Bloodborne's pvp a lot more exciting as people actually need to start hitting each other to win.
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« Reply #5916 on: February 04, 2016, 02:40:42 AM »

textures look pretty bad though. so its a demons souls throwback!

what.

the textures look really good. so do the ones in demon's souls actually, considering the game's age and low budget nature. demon's has really nice art direction.
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« Reply #5917 on: February 04, 2016, 03:23:42 AM »

Also, no backstabs. This alone makes Bloodborne's pvp a lot more exciting as people actually need to start hitting each other to win.
Well technically you can, but it's definitely hard to pull off in PvP.

this honestly seems like it was targeted directly at me: kick is back, ragdoll bodies is back, and the water looks alright. i basically dont need to see anymore, day one purchase.

textures look pretty bad though. so its a demons souls throwback!

Yeah, I'm super excited about ragdolls being back. The silliness of it really calms the soul when you're on the verge of throwing your controller.

I disagree about the textures though. A lot of videos have terrible compression or aren't at 1080p so it looks bad, but from screenshots the textures look just as good or better than Bloodborne which I think looks fantastic.
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« Reply #5918 on: February 07, 2016, 03:38:34 AM »

I beat Bloodborne! I'm really fuckin proud of myself right now. When I started playing the souls series I was absolutely awful. I ended up beating both Gehrman and Moon Presence on the first try each. I beat Orphan of Kos on like... the 7th try or something, but the fight was amazing. I saved the video clip because it was so badass. Started new game plus already. I'm somehow more pumped to keep playing now.
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« Reply #5919 on: February 07, 2016, 03:18:50 PM »

It's strange, although I really love Bloodborne, I don't really feel the urge to replay it. Maybe its because the game is more linear, and though the weapons all feel like they change the gameplay quite a bit, it still feels like it all has less range than Demon's Souls or Dark Souls 1 and 2. Maybe because of how combat remains fairly similar regardless of your weapon choices, it all remains more or less about staying very mobile and hitting at the right times.

I actually feel like going back to Dark Souls 1 and 2 a bit more than to bloodborne.

Maybe its because of the chalice dungeons, I played that for a while and got so bored of it, maybe it kind of poisoned the rest somehow.
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