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[readyplaygames]

Reading this without having played the games is like reading a different language. It's fun.

[Tumetsu]

Been listening Ludwig the Accursed & Holy blade theme on youtube and watched a battle against him. He looks like most impressive boss and impactful boss in souls games I have seen. I wish I had my own official BB-player to play the damn game. Well, maybe they get cheaper once PSNeo is released and I might consider buying PS4 only for this game.

[s0]

I got a ps4 for bloodborne and it was worth it for me.

Btw i think bborne has better music than all of the dark souls games.

[Tumetsu]

Yeah, PS4 is still quite expensive and while I could afford it I can't quite justify it yet to myself  Though I saw an offer of 299e which made me almost to pick it up but it was limited time only.

I quite agree with the music though I find myself listening mostly Old Hunters music (Laurence, Ludwig, Maria) and few others from main game (First Hunter). I remember there being a long video about the music creation process of BB where they explained how they composed and designed music. Might be interesting for you in case you haven't seen it:

[s0]

laurence's theme is actually a "remix" of sorts of the cleric beast theme (just like the boss fight itself haha)

[Tumetsu]

Now when you mentioned it I specifically listened it that in mind and you are definitely right. Though I like Laurence's version better.

After watching Ludwig's boss fight I really appreciate his design both visually and lorewise. Visual design is really creepy in the beginning but mid-battle transformation really changes the feel of fight and character gains a sense of humanity impossible to predict in the first part of the fight. Imo it is one of the most interesting portrayals of man becoming a monster archetype I know in videogames at least.

I was kind of disappointed seeing that Laurence was just Cleric beast reskin but afaik it makes sense in BB lore.

Btw, has anyone noticed that in recent games (BB, DkS3) bosses seem to have more dialogue than in previous games? Ludwig, Oceiros, Twin Princes etc. I find that generally a positive addition especially since they are not the usual boss bragging to player kind of nonsense common in games.

[s0]

I think ludwig might be the only videogame boss who becomes LESS monstrous as he transforms lol

honestly i also like the mystery of dialog-less bosses tho. you're always sort of wondering how sentient they really are. plus, the souls games are big on "storytelling through action" and usually the personality of characters expresses itself through how they fight.

[SousaVilla]

Yeah, PS4 is still quite expensive and while I could afford it I can't quite justify it yet to myself   Though I saw an offer of 299e which made me almost to pick it up but it was limited time only.

If you want to have another reason to buy a ps4, Nioh is going to be an exclusive like bloodborne. I played the beta and loved it, it has the souls vibe, but with enough differences to feel new. I was dying to common enemies in the beggining and, once I got the combat system, breezing through the toughest ones later. That was exatcly like my first playthrough of dark souls went, so it's good to feel that again.

[Tumetsu]

@silbereisen
Hah, that's true and Ludwig is interesting since the whole transformation is just a different posture and fighting style. I think for me that really drives home that he was once sentient human and still has fleeting grasp of his humanity but is beyond any help.

Yes, I also like the dialog-less bosses since like you said there is often story telling by actions. For example Wolnir falling into abyss or Artorias scene before his fight. Still I really liked what they did with Oceiros and Twin Princes through dialogue which really fleshed out their characters and role. Without mad monologue Oceiros would just be a random "Seath 2" dragon and the motives of Lothric would be probably too vague. There is still stuff which is probably best to convey through brief dialogue.

@Sousavilla
I have about Nioh a bit mostly in this thread and it looks ok I guess it might be fun but not a system-seller for me.

[s0]

btw, interestingly enough, artorias originally had dialog that was cut. so did quelaag

Without mad monologue Oceiros would just be a random "Seath 2" dragon and the motives of Lothric would be probably too vague. There is still stuff which is probably best to convey through brief dialogue.

true

[Tumetsu]

Yeah I know. I don't remember what Artorias' dialogue contained but I always wondered and kind of wished that he would have had even short glimpse of sentience like we see in Ludwig. Then again his behavior is quite powerful example of the corrupting influence of the Abyss so I can totally see why they removed his dialogue.

I think I'll consider buying PS4 after they release Neo (tomorrow) and see if the price will decrease because of it. I guess buying PS4 for BB isn't that big deal since I basically bought new GPU just for DkS3 I wish that BB would get 60fps in PSNeo but I think that knowing From that is probably never gonna happen so regular PS4 is probably good enough for me haha

[s0]

well he just says "i am being consumed by the abyss" basically. the dialog is actually kind of cool, but it doesn't really add anything storywise and they just opted for "show, don't tell" instead. also it implies he would have talked during the fight, which kinda doesn't make sense. If he's still sentient enough to warn you about the abyss, why does he attack you? he certainly doesn't seem to want to fight you.






ludwig's dialog makes more sense in context and he tells you things (when you talk to his head after he "dies") that you wouldn't have found out otherwise. ludwig in general is a super interesting character because he appears to be half "ascended" and half beast.

btw, i like how the old hunters is basically artorias 2.0 with an added layer of mindfuckery. i think it's the best dlc in the series, personally.

[Tumetsu]

Yeah I think when using dialogue it should really add something to the character or their story and I think it was a good call to cut it out from Artorias.

Didn't think Ludwig as half ascended (though that is interesting though) but instead a strong willed person who could through Moonlight Great Sword resist the scourge longer and pull through it for a short moment in the end. I read the pale blood essay some time ago and I find it fascinating what was the role of MGS in Ludwig's fate. Was it an instrument which just led him towards his beasthood or did it really help him to last longer? These kind of questions make souls games so fascinating but sometimes a bit frustrating at the same time

Speaking of vague "answers" and interpretations, I kind of wish the upcoming dlcs would shed a bit more light on the role of Londor, the Dark Age and the future of the world without the flame. Or maybe something a bit more definitive on the origin or purpose of the curse of the undead. Then again it is okay and maybe for the best if they leave those things as they are.

[Tumetsu]

New PS4 Slim was announced and looks like general price of PS4s will fluctuate somewhere between 300-329e tempting me a lot. Horizon looks like a interesting game too so I might pick the thing up finally once Slims get to stores and I can see if I can get it or regular PS4 for reasonable price.

[JWK5]

Kind of interesting: http://thelorehunter.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-cleric-beast-wendigo.html

[quantumpotato]

Hello a friend loaned me an Xbox just to play Dark Souls 1 and it is fantastic.
I think the later games completely overlooked the world design as what made DS so brilliant.
"They know the words, but not the music"

[s0]

good. now borrow a ps3 to play demon's souls. then your enlightenment will be complete.

[quantumpotato]

good. now borrow a ps3 to play demon's souls. then your enlightenment will be complete.

I will when I can! Do you think Demon's did a better job of the world design than Dark Souls?

[s0]

No (the world is segmented) but it did a better job with regards to the design of individual areas. It's also the weirdest of all the games and has a special atmosphere that the other games never replicated.

[quantumpotato]

No (the world is segmented) but it did a better job with regards to the design of individual areas. It's also the weirdest of all the games and has a special atmosphere that the other games never replicated.

Cool, I'll play it when I can. Thank you for the recommendation(s)!