TeeGee
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« Reply #980 on: November 09, 2012, 09:44:23 AM » |
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Got to the Moonlight Butterfly, and I can hereby declare anyone who had troubles with it a spineless nooblet!
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Belimoth
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« Reply #981 on: November 09, 2012, 10:07:17 AM » |
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IMO, the Abyss is like a pocket dimension, and a portal can be created anywhere that leads to it. The 4 Kings and the sorcerers of Oolacile both used the dark arts to open a portal. However, it is much larger on the inside than the outside, otherwise you could probably see it from Ash Lake.
Maybe the abyss is infinitely deep, that's why the only creatures that can live in it are the serpents, because they are infinitely long.
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« Reply #982 on: November 09, 2012, 12:15:09 PM » |
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Whee, I just got to Anor Londo! How exciting!
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SundownKid
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« Reply #983 on: November 09, 2012, 01:19:06 PM » |
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IMO, the Abyss is like a pocket dimension, and a portal can be created anywhere that leads to it. The 4 Kings and the sorcerers of Oolacile both used the dark arts to open a portal. However, it is much larger on the inside than the outside, otherwise you could probably see it from Ash Lake.
Maybe the abyss is infinitely deep, that's why the only creatures that can live in it are the serpents, because they are infinitely long. Manus and various other monsters could live in the Abyss as well. But it's pretty safe to say that the Abyss is a vast expanse of infinite space. Artorias had to become an "Abysswalker" because otherwise you'd just keep falling forever. Got to the Moonlight Butterfly, and I can hereby declare anyone who had troubles with it a spineless nooblet!
Dude. You fought it when you reached Blighttown. I fought it right after Taurus Demon. Completely different stats and equipment. Whee, I just got to Anor Londo! How exciting!
It's so pretty... so beautiful... so... WELCOME TO DIE!
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Tumetsu
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« Reply #984 on: November 09, 2012, 01:28:17 PM » |
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Moonlight Butterfly is difficult if you fight it after Taurus and don't have any magic protection. You only need to fail one roll and it can one-shot you with those homing things. After you realize that and figure out the timing it is easy, especially if you have ranged attacks. Died few times like that in my first playthrough.
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TeeGee
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« Reply #985 on: November 09, 2012, 02:22:58 PM » |
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Got to the Moonlight Butterfly, and I can hereby declare anyone who had troubles with it a spineless nooblet!
Dude. You fought it when you reached Blighttown. I fought it right after Taurus Demon. Completely different stats and equipment. I just had the basic Chain Armor from the Undead Burg merchant and my trusty Claymore from the dragon bridge. I don't think it's high-end gear, though just having more soul levels certainly helps. But mostly, he just spams missiles that are easy to dodge and with enough intervals between them that you can heal easily if one of those small arrows hits you (I even managed to heal with a miracle). Then he just sits there and takes beating. Probably would take one more round and a couple more Estus with a weaker character, or I might have been lucky with dodges. Also, silence nooblet .
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IzzyReggie
Level 1
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« Reply #986 on: November 09, 2012, 02:29:26 PM » |
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So what the heck is up with PvP? Every video I see is like honorable duels that start with a bow, and nobody backstabs.
When I go to PvP, 2 people show up, chain backstab me, and then roll off using Wrath of the Gods and then do insulting emotes all on me.
I just wanna fight some guys.
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Raptor85
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« Reply #987 on: November 09, 2012, 02:39:37 PM » |
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probably either your level or where you're at, most formal duels are in the burgs or township. if people are trying to backstab fish too it's pretty easy to counter, when they're near your side just parry or use a weak attack (parry is a little harder to time, but either will interrupt them, parry just has the benefit that you turn their backstab into a riposte on them )
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-Fuzzy Spider
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Ben_Hurr
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« Reply #988 on: November 09, 2012, 05:00:39 PM » |
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If parrying works when they attack from the side, then thanks for confirming that the netcode sucks horribly. IMO, the Abyss is like a pocket dimension, and a portal can be created anywhere that leads to it. The 4 Kings and the sorcerers of Oolacile both used the dark arts to open a portal. However, it is much larger on the inside than the outside, otherwise you could probably see it from Ash Lake.
Maybe the abyss is infinitely deep, that's why the only creatures that can live in it are the serpents, because they are infinitely long. So basically, longframpt? I'm so so sorry for dragging memes into this.
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Belimoth
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« Reply #989 on: November 09, 2012, 11:11:18 PM » |
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I enjoyed it.
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baconman
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« Reply #990 on: November 13, 2012, 08:16:58 AM » |
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Once I saw The Abyss, I thought of The Nexus. I know it's not just me, either...
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TeeGee
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« Reply #991 on: November 13, 2012, 08:39:58 AM » |
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Gotta say that, after playing it some more, I'm liking it a lot less than Demon's Souls. Makes me wonder if it would be any different if this was the first Souls game I played. Would it seem better because of the freshness of the experience, or more frustrating because I wouldn't have my DS skills?
It's definitely prettier and more polished. But for me it lacks some focus. For the most part, I don't know what I'm doing and why. Why did I go to the Darkroot Garden (aside from it being open) and kill that butterfly? Why did I go to the Catacombs next? What have I accomplished? I realize that there's an intricate story beneath it all, but DS also had one and somehow managed to make me feel like I have a clear purpose and am making actual progress. Here, I'm wandering about, killing stuff for shits and giggles.
I'm also not the fan of the open world thing. It's clever how the levels are all connected, but it doesn't really add anything. It's not Skyrim where I can go someplace and then return using a different route, encountering new content along the way. DkS is very strictly designed, with every enemy and trap being always at the same exact location, so getting back is simply retracing the same steps over and over. A waste of time.
It has one huge drawback, too. In DS, when you felt like you are banging against a wall in one world, you could always go and tackle another one. It's a very valuable feature in this kind of games. Same trick was used in Monster Hunter. You always had several monsters available, so if one was killing you over and over, you could try your luck elsewhere. Here, it's still possible but made annoying by the necessity of backtracking. For example -- I just killed the Catacombs boss (no idea why or who he was) and am getting killed by the two Giant Skeletons ahead. I'm starting to get frustrated because I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything (in DS I would at least unlock a new Archstone, saving me the time to get to these skeletons). It makes me want to try something else for a change. But the perspective of getting back up and then all the way down again seems so boring that I keep banging my head against the wall, feeling more and more frustrated.
Speaking of Archstones and bosses, they gave a very clear sense of progress and allowed for a change of pace after a hard fight (with the demon's souls being a nice reward). Here, I usually feel like killing the boss gained me nothing. I get some key or item, but I can't even start from his location or get a cool new weapon/spell.
It's all seemingly little things, but they make the game way less fun for me than DS was.
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baconman
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« Reply #992 on: November 13, 2012, 08:50:38 AM » |
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You know you just miss your Sticky White Stuff (tm). ;p
But those are pretty valid points, yeah. Demon's is like the MegaMan version of Dark.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #993 on: November 13, 2012, 09:00:42 AM » |
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Killing a boss gives you:
1.) A soul you can use to craft into weapons (usually two weapons, requiring you to do NG+ and beyond for all the weapons in the game). The Giant Blacksmith in Anor Londo crafts these out of +10 items and a boss soul. 2.) Allows you to go human in the area without being invaded (great for co-op players) 3.) Often (not always) unlocks the next area
As for the story, it's told in piecemeal and contextualized. The Catacombs boss, for example, is Pinwheel. He was once a servant of Nito, but then he stole his power and set himself up as lord of the Catacombs. This is told in items and subtleties. For example, right before Nito, there are a bunch of Pinwheel enemies (although not as strong as the boss).
Moonlight Butterfly is optional. Technically you don't have to kill it, but doing so gives you the Divine Ember, which is hella useful for the Catacombs.
Dark Souls is definitely a more esoteric game, but I feel like it fits better. Demon's Souls is almost cartoonish and doesn't really have any plot other than "OH NO THE OLD ONE", whereas Dark Souls attempts to build a more cohesive and nuanced game world.
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s0
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« Reply #994 on: November 13, 2012, 09:03:18 AM » |
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It's definitely prettier and more polished. But for me it lacks some focus. For the most part, I don't know what I'm doing and why. Why did I go to the Darkroot Garden (aside from it being open) and kill that butterfly? Why did I go to the Catacombs next? What have I accomplished? I realize that there's an intricate story beneath it all, but DS also had one and somehow managed to make me feel like I have a clear purpose and am making actual progress. Here, I'm wandering about, killing stuff for shits and giggles. just quoting myself from 5 pages back yo i think the story is actually better but the base plot is less straightforward (probably exacerbated by the lack of a nexus where all the important story npcs are) and takes more time to sink in. i didnt really get what was even going on until my 2nd playthrough lol. everything you do in this game has some kind of purpose and the places and creatures are all tied into the lore. dork soles is just less obvious about it because it doesn't have the archstone descriptions. protip: if youre interested in the story, read item descriptions. keys usually tell you something about the area they belong to. look, i thought the same thing about the game when i first played through it. then my save got deleted and i started a new character and suddenly everything came together beautifully. after pumping over 200 hours into each souls game i'm confident in saying dork souls is better than dumon's souls. p.s. the moonlight butterfly is an optional boss you kill to get the ember from the petrified blacksmith (andre tells you all about it) and pinwheel is basically the head honcho of those necromancers you fight in the catacombs.
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Graham-
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« Reply #995 on: November 13, 2012, 09:11:17 AM » |
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sometimes you have to lose a save to love a game.
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IzzyReggie
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« Reply #996 on: November 13, 2012, 09:21:14 AM » |
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I am the loremaster of Dark Souls. I 'got' most of it the first time. I am the loremaster of DS.
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TeeGee
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« Reply #997 on: November 13, 2012, 09:27:21 AM » |
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I'm never buying the argument that I'm going to love the game after 200hrs or after I play it again. Good game starts good. And who sinks dozens of hours into a game they don't like anyway?
Yeah, I know what the gameplay purpose of killing Moonlight Butterfly is. But that's what I'm talking about. "I killed it because it has uber loot" hardly constitutes a good story with a sense of purpose. Makes it sound like a WoW quest. Demon's Souls gave me a clear purpose right away. I'm a guy who tries to free Boletaria by killing demons. Each completed level and killed boss gets me closer to that goal and learning its secret second meaning. It's simple, but the game still managed to create memorable moments like the Tower of Latria or the Maiden Astrea battle. Haven't seen anything like that in DkS yet.
That said, don't think that I don't like DkS or think it's a bad game. It's pretty cool, level design is amazing, and the battle system is tight as ever. I just like it less than DS and find some changes to be for worse ("Durr, let's make it open world, because open worlds are where it's at these days!").
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #998 on: November 13, 2012, 09:44:19 AM » |
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Dark Souls starts good though.
Demon's Souls had no real sense of progression or evolution for me because each level was broken into piecemeal chunks and it never really felt like I was "getting somewhere" lore-wise. It's "kill these five dudes. Okay now kill the big evil demon. That's it congrats!." With Dark Souls there's this sense of discovery. First you ring the bells, which unveils Sen's Fortress and subsequently Anor Londo. Then you discover the fates of the gods and some cool secrets if you are so inclined. Then you go find the sources of necromancy, demons, crystal magic, and darkwraiths. Finally, you confront Gwyn and make your choice.
Functionally it's very similar to Demon's Souls, albeit with a bit of a wind-up to get to the actual "chase down the archdemons" part. It just presents the lore in a more subtle way and the lore is more interesting as well.
Basically Dark Souls is a game for the curious. It rewards players who go out of their way to be inquisitive and exploratory about the world the game takes place in. Demon's Souls doesn't have that because it is, as someone mentioned earlier, essentially sword-fantasy megaman.
I will say, though, that the archdemon fights in Demon's Souls are really well-designed.
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s0
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« Reply #999 on: November 13, 2012, 10:02:23 AM » |
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demsouls actually has a lot to discover too lol. if you just rush through to the boss you're only seeing about half of each level. I'm never buying the argument that I'm going to love the game after 200hrs what? it didn't take me 200hrs to love the game. i loved it from the start. all i said was it took me a second playthrough to get a grasp on the world and story, and that ive spent so much time with both souls games that i feel confident in comparing them. It's simple, but the game still managed to create memorable moments like the Tower of Latria or the Maiden Astrea battle. Haven't seen anything like that in DkS yet quelaag, priscilla, anor londo, duke's archives, lost izalith. Yeah, I know what the gameplay purpose of killing Moonlight Butterfly is. But that's what I'm talking about. "I killed it because it has uber loot" hardly constitutes a good story with a sense of purpose. Makes it sound like a WoW quest. what's the reason for killing miralda in demsouls? also highly doubt they went "open world" with the game because it's "trendy" or whatever. it's not like they're trying to be gta. the world is set up like a metroidvania and is a throwback to the king's field games more than anything.
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