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[JScythe]

I know all about being poor and liking video games,

Go on. . .

Building an OK five year old level one from used parts can cost you anywhere from a hundred dollars to nothing.

And I'd love to see that build. Please, give us a parts list and a benchmark.

A last gen handheld is good too if you really need to play things non-stationary.

But we aren't talking about something non-stationary, are we? We're talking about something you hook up to your TV. Let's keep it on the rails.

If you're really dying to conveniently play games on your TV with a controller, then your best option right now it probably to get a PS2. They're dirt cheap even if you buy a brand new one, and has a great collection of games that still hold up.

And I agree for the most part. Thing is, a PS2 doesn't do Netflix, Crackle, Pandora, Twitch.tv, etc.

Gaming is primarily a middle class hobby for sure, but the idea of a budget console with worse games for the poor as a solution to that is insulting more than anything.

It is insulting when you look at it that way. But the problem isn't with the machine itself,  it's with the content. Without audience there is no incentive to create good content. It's a chicken or the egg argument with no right answer at the moment. Until this thing hits the market none of us can say whether or not it will get good exclusive games or not. Then again, I don't think that the Great Giana Sisters remake or The Ball were bad games. And the Ouya is a much cheaper and more convenient way of experiencing those games than building a PC rig out of used parts from Crag's list.

[Udderdude]

I realize that part of the "joy" of internet forums is the flame war, but I sense some real venom behind some of the more ignorant comments. These people sound like the Ouya is a sign of the coming end of days. OH NOES!!11111! SUMWON H4S STUK A SEL FONE IN A POST-IT NOTE HOLDER!!! ZOMG!!!! Seriously? I mean, seriously?

How many more strawmen are you going to light on fire? 

Pretty sure you're just trolling at this point as you admit to doing so before on your Youtube ..

http://www.youtube.com/user/jscythe74/feed?filter=1

Edit: Pastebinning this shit in case of deletion http://pastebin.com/DEZR3ZSm

You also appear to have some sort of bizzare hang-up with classism that doesn't even apply to the conversation here.

I don't know what your problem or issue is, but all you've done so far is make yourself look like an asshole.

[JScythe]

I realize that part of the "joy" of internet forums is the flame war, but I sense some real venom behind some of the more ignorant comments. These people sound like the Ouya is a sign of the coming end of days. OH NOES!!11111! SUMWON H4S STUK A SEL FONE IN A POST-IT NOTE HOLDER!!! ZOMG!!!! Seriously? I mean, seriously?

How many more strawmen are you going to light on fire? 

Pretty sure you're just trolling at this point as you admit to doing so before on your Youtube ..

http://www.youtube.com/user/jscythe74/feed?filter=1

Oh wow. I guess things really don't go away on the internet.

But I digress. There's a lot of difference between trolling a bunch of neckbearded retards with nothing to complain about and finding out why a group of gaming literate indie developers hate a console that caters directly to people that like indie games.

In the former I was having fun. In the latter I'm trying to prod some honesty out of the rotting wood. I addressed the content issue as a chicken or the egg thing that we'll have to wait and see about. I think that most people posting on this thread have been perfectly aware of the nature of the content argument as well. So I want to know the actual reason why the Ouya is held in the contempt that it is.

Is it because you have a hardware bias against sticking a cell phone in a post-it note holder?

Is it because you have a software bias against Android?

Is it because you have a branding bias against anything that isn't Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.?

Seriously? what gives?

[Ouren]

Can we delete people from the internet?

[Udderdude]

finding out why a group of gaming literate indie developers hate a console that caters directly to people that like indie games.

Hate is a strong word.  Again with the strawman shit.  Seriously, are you completely incapabale of having a conversation without putting words in other people's mouths?

And just because they're attempting to cater to indies doesn't mean they're all going to be falling all over the thing.

You weren't trying to figure anything out by yelling "CLASSISM!" and "ELITISM!" either.  You were just trying to start a pointless flamewar.

In the former I was having fun. In the latter I'm trying to prod some honesty out of the rotting wood.

Rotting wood, huh?  You sure know how to win 'em over.

Is it because you have a hardware bias against sticking a cell phone in a post-it note holder?

Is it because you have a software bias against Android?

Is it because you have a branding bias against anything that isn't Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.?

Seriously? what gives?

As a developer, I'm not exactly falling head over heels to develop for an unproven console with teething issues that may very well flop spectacuarly, wasting all the time I spent porting my games to the thing.

As a gamer, almost all of the games that will eventually end up on the thing are already available to me in other places.

The niche it's trying to fill, cheap-ass console with simple games, has already been filled by 1. Handhelds from Nintendo and Sony, 2. iPhone/Android games.

I really don't even see a viable market for the thing except for non-game related shit like watching movies, which crushes the game market for it almost entirely.

No indie dev is going to risk everything developing an exclusive for the thing.  They don't have the time or budget for that.

[JScythe]

Edit: Pastebinning this shit in case of deletion http://pastebin.com/DEZR3ZSm

No worries there, I'm fine with what I said in response to that video.

You also appear to have some sort of bizzare hang-up with classism that doesn't even apply to the conversation here.

The class thing was meant to be inciteful. And you replied to that question. I replied to your reply. And, had you read the entire post, I also explained why the intense hatred on the grounds you stated seems more than a little excessive.

I don't know what your problem or issue is, but all you've done so far is make yourself look like an asshole.

Yeah, I did end up firebombing the entire point. And now that's all we're going to hear about. No matter how rationally I ask, no one is going to give me a straight answer as to why they hate a machine that doesn't affect them in the slightest. The only thing I can look forward to now LOL DONT FE3D T3H TRO111

It's a shame really. No one to blame but myself on that.

[s0]

Is it because you have a hardware bias against sticking a cell phone in a post-it note holder?

Is it because you have a software bias against Android?

Is it because you have a branding bias against anything that isn't Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.?

all of the above actually

[Ouren]

The class thing was meant to be inciteful. And you replied to that question. I replied to your reply. And, had you read the entire post, I also explained why the intense hatred on the grounds you stated seems more than a little excessive.

Incite is not insight.



No one rational uploads a video with this attitude. You can hear the self importance

 

[Schoq]

Personally I don't give a rat butt about the ouya and  how it does, I was just responding to the idea of the ouya as something which will enable poor people to play video games (lol, lol, and lol) and the longer reply was just as much towards richard kain's "PC gaming has, and always will be, a luxury." (LOL)

[JScythe]

As a developer, I'm not exactly falling head over heels to develop for an unproven console with teething issues that may very well flop spectacuarly, wasting all the time I spent porting my games to the thing.

That's a reasonable stance to take. Wait and see is always good. Having read this whole thread, you haven't pushed too damn hard one way or another so a lot of what I've said doesn't apply to you.

As a gamer, almost all of the games that will eventually end up on the thing are already available to me in other places.

But as a gamer you already know this. People who like games but don't identify themselves as gamers may not know this and the Ouya will be a convenience for them. Expanding the market is good, yes?

The niche it's trying to fill, cheap-ass console with simple games, has already been filled by 1. Handhelds from Nintendo and Sony, 2. iPhone/Android games.

I disagree. It takes special hardware to hook any of those devices to my TV. Try finding an OTG cable offline sometime then multiply that difficulty by an order of magnitude for device specific HDMI connectors. Also consider that you can only have one player per device with handhelds, cell phones and tablets. There's a market here and it's gonna blow your mind how big it really is.

I really don't even see a viable market for the thing except for non-game related shit like watching movies, which crushes the game market for it almost entirely.

Again, I disagree. The most used app on the PS3 is Netflix and it hasn't shown any significant deterrent to the purchase of games. Remember how many people bought the PS2 because it was a cheap DVD player? Games could be the added bonus that brings more people into the gaming hobby.

Also I think that this is what the Ouya was originally meant to be. I think that they noticed all these streaming devices on store shelves and wanted to do one themselves. After they found out that the market for internet streamers was saturated, they started looking for a unique selling point and games was it. All speculation of course, but it doesn't change the fact that movies just might be a good way to get people in the door.

No indie dev is going to risk everything developing an exclusive for the thing.  They don't have the time or budget for that.

I don't see it like that. I see it as just one more platform. There are games that are terrible on cell phones and tablets that might be great if they had physical controls. There are games on console that play way better on touch screen. Puzzle Quest works great on a tablet but feels really clunky with a controller. Likewise, GTA 3 and Max Payne are both best with physical controls. The Ouya just means that you don't have to learn an entirely new platform in order to make games for the appropriate control scheme.

And no, a professional dev wouldn't risk it on an exclusive title. But a bedroom dev, like myself, might be inclined to release their three month long project on the Ouya if it absolutely required one or more controllers.

[Ouren]

No indie dev is going to risk everything developing an exclusive for the thing.  They don't have the time or budget for that.

I don't see it like that. I see it as just one more platform. There are games that are terrible on cell phones and tablets that might be great if they had physical controls. There are games on console that play way better on touch screen. Puzzle Quest works great on a tablet but feels really clunky with a controller. Likewise, GTA 3 and Max Payne are both best with physical controls. The Ouya just means that you don't have to learn an entirely new platform in order to make games for the appropriate control scheme.

And no, a professional dev wouldn't risk it on an exclusive title. But a bedroom dev, like myself, might be inclined to release their three month long project on the Ouya if it absolutely required one or more controllers.

Ah, so it is just one more platform to worry about. Or not. I'm in the "not worry about it" camp.

[Udderdude]

The JScythe guide to forum discussion

1. Show up at a forum and throw around strawman arguments and flamebait
2. Claim victory despite all evidence to the contrary
3. ? ? ?
4. OUYA still doesn't make a profit!

[JScythe]

No indie dev is going to risk everything developing an exclusive for the thing.  They don't have the time or budget for that.

I don't see it like that. I see it as just one more platform. There are games that are terrible on cell phones and tablets that might be great if they had physical controls. There are games on console that play way better on touch screen. Puzzle Quest works great on a tablet but feels really clunky with a controller. Likewise, GTA 3 and Max Payne are both best with physical controls. The Ouya just means that you don't have to learn an entirely new platform in order to make games for the appropriate control scheme.

And no, a professional dev wouldn't risk it on an exclusive title. But a bedroom dev, like myself, might be inclined to release their three month long project on the Ouya if it absolutely required one or more controllers.

Ah, so it is just one more platform to worry about. Or not. I'm in the "not worry about it" camp.

Ouya is Android and phones / tablets are android. If you already know how to make Android games, or port Flash and HTML 5 games to Android, or use Unity 3D, then Ouya won't require you learn anything new. If you've been writing PC games in Assembly language, you'll have to learn a new platform.

Does that clear it up a little?

[JScythe]

The JScythe guide to forum discussion

1. Show up at a forum and throw around strawman arguments and flamebait
2. Claim victory despite all evidence to the contrary
3. ? ? ?
4. OUYA still doesn't make a profit!

Where in the hell did I declare victory?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

you declared it by saying the ouya has already won, will be in walmarts in october, and that it inevitably will sell 1 million copies, when in fact it has only sold closer to 25,000 copies total so far, and it can't even deliver those 25,000 in a timely fashion

that's kind of assuming the conclusion. people are arguing in this thread largely over whether or not ouya will be a success or not. to simply declare it a success is saying you've won

[JScythe]

you declared it by saying the ouya has already won, will be in walmarts in october, and that it inevitably will sell 1 million copies, when in fact it has only sold closer to 25,000 copies total so far, and it can't even deliver those 25,000 in a timely fashion

that's kind of assuming the conclusion. people are arguing in this thread largely over whether or not ouya will be a success or not. to simply declare it a success is saying you've won

At the price point, if it can deliver as advertised, it will sell. I'm not psychic. Whether it can turn a profit even at 1 million units sold is anyone's guess. And just because they'll have the numbers to beg, barrow, or steal their way on to Wal Mart shelves doesn't prevent them from crashing hard.

The only thing I can say with absolute certainty is that there is a market for this thing. Whether Ouya will be the device that fills that market is another matter altogether. It's not like  there aren't other devices already lined up to take the Ouya's place. It's also not like some other, big name, company won't make their own set top Android box in the event that the Ouya moves beyond that 1 million sales mark. In fact, it would be better for another company to move in once Ouya tanks since they can just use the Ouya SDK as a baseline for development on their own system.

There's a lot to watch here and it goes way beyond wanting once specific device to succeed or fail.

[Ouren]

This is all people will end up doing with it.





It's already a success in my mind... as a thing to play old games on, not new ones.

[JScythe]

This is all people will end up doing with it.





It's already a success in my mind... as a thing to play old games on, not new ones.

Truth.

Now the real question is whether the Ouya makes money off of the hardware or the software. If the bulk of the revenue comes from hardware, they should be fine. If, on the other hand, they make their money from the app store. . . .

[Ouren]

Developers won't make enough money to do anything meaningful with. That's the issue here bubs.


#gettingTheThreadBackOnTopic

[Richard Kain]

I recall most of the same arguments being leveled against the DS, and the Wii after it. When they announced the name of the Wii, I was one of the only people who thought it was a good idea. The vast majority of video game pundits believed it was concrete proof that the Wii was doomed for failure.

At the end of the day, every prediction I made about the previous console generation came to pass. And now I think there's a real chance for the OUYA to do decently, and at least turn a profit. Past experience has given me ample reason to be confident in my own analysis of the market.

There is a market for a low-cost, modern home console. The new crop of Android-based home gaming systems will be targeting that market. This new/old approach to console design is going to have an effect on the home console market going forward.