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[Mittens]

As you android developers know, google sends an email every time someone cancels an order (presses the refund button on your app in Google Play)
I have been getting heaps of these emails

Is this normal for so many users to try out apps on Google Play and the refund them soon after?

what kind of percentage of users refund your apps?

[ColeyWoley]

Same thing is happening to us.  Just the culture I think.  Android users aren't prepared to pay for games.

[Radix]

Same thing is happening to us.  Just the culture I think.  Android users aren't prepared to pay for games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Google Play only permit refunds within 15 minutes? In that case they're using it as a demo, and since 15 minutes isn't very long to play something they're presumably doing so with the intention of keeping it if they actually like the game, which means what you're really complaining about is not being able to take users' money and run.

You should be grateful that players are taking the time to check out your game at all, and be glad it's not like Amazon whose bullshit returns policy allows a full refund inside of seven days, so even if your product isn't terrible you still see a flat 10%-15% return rate minimum.

Edit:
ColeyWoley, after checking out your game's Play page and trailer I think you're doing yourself a disservice by putting it down to "the culture". I don't want to be an arsehole and pile on, but there are a couple specific things you could address.

[Nix]

Yea, you should use this as a sign that you can improve your game. At least people are trying the game and then returning it instead of simply not trying it. If you improve it, they'll buy it and keep it.

[Uykered]

The thing with Little Dragon is that it gets better the longer you play, the first few times I played it I mainly just noticed bugs and the movement felt weird, but once you get use to it it gets better.

[Nix]

Maybe the initial experience can be improved then so players are more likely to stick it through

[Mittens]

Well, Although there have been many refunds people haven't left any reviews or feedback explaining why they refunded it, which makes me think that maybe there are just people who go through android apps trying them out with no intention of spending money on any of them

But I guess I can kinda see why some people would refund it, since it doesn't really fit the casual game mould, the game requires you to master a new game mechanic before it's any fun.

I've tried as best I can to get player to learn how to fly properly, and in most of the test I've watched people seem to get it after a while, I think some people just don't want to learn, they want to buy a game that will be fun immediately, they don't want to invest time mastering something new.

But regardless of how good/bad my game is, I'd still like to hear from more android developers to know if this many refunds thing is common of their experience with the android market/google play

[Nix]

Instead of saying gamers are too lazy to learn your game, ask yourself how you can make learning it a more enjoyable experience.

[Muz]

Look at it from a player's perspective. They see a lot of crappy games on the market with nice screenshots and descriptions, but no demo. They've been burned on them before.

They are going to want to look for more games, but they're wary of games that are just money wasters. Unless you're hitting the 100k downloads mark, chances are that you're already pulling some hardcore players who are actively looking for games. If you don't impress them quick, they'll just refund.

It's not a big issue, you've already hooked them, you just failed to pull them in. You're already in the customer's living room, just make sure that they're not put off by the initial presentation.

[Evan Balster]

Or do something to make sure they play for 15 contiguous minutes their first time. 

[Mittens]

Well I'm open to suggestions, because I can't think of any new way I can assist players in learning how to play properly, about half of the time (that I've observed) players do discover how to play for themselves, other times there are people that would never get it (without me personally tutoring them for some time)

This is probably something I should start a post about in the Design Workshop area for, but yeah, I don't know what else I can do, I still think a lot of the people refunding are just wanting a casual game as opposed to a game that requires a time investment

[Klaim]

This is bullshit.

[Muz]

Give them the fun stuff right from the start. It's your sales pitch.. maybe start off with a boss battle that demos all their skills. Tease them, tell them what else they can expect.

One thing I do respect casual games for is that they're willing to put a hell lot of time on polish. You can pull it off with a hardcore game. Sonic/Mortal Kombat/Doom/Mario were good at the sales pitch. No tutorials, just throws you into the gameplay.

It depends on how fun learning is... I made the mistake of overestimating how much players are willing to learn (over an hour, with lots more secrets to figure out puzzle style). It tanked my game. You have to hold their hand nowadays, but you want to make it feel like they're learning things by themselves.

On the other hand, Final Fantasy III starts off really slow.. almost trying to avoid the good parts for about 2 hours or so. It's also one of the most expensive games on Android, yet it sells really well. I don't know how many refunds they get. Then again, they start off with a really powerful brand name.

[Mittens]

I agree with what you guys are saying, as much as it might sound like I'm just looking for something else to blame for these refunds, I do already criticise my own work, I can understand a great deal of refunds because this project has some pretty difficult dynamics that make it impossible to please every player.

1. Accuracy vs performance; some people are probably refunding the game because it can seem buggy (it's possible sometimes to fly out of the map, instead of dying when hitting the walls)
This is caused by using very simplified physics, So I could use precise physics, so the game never appears buggy, but this will reduce performance so that far less devices can run the game at all, which means that more people with low-end hardware will be refunding the game

2. People who learn how to fly early find that beating their highest score is not motivating, they want more difficult scenarios and challenges, but then there are other people who take forever to learn the very basics of the game-play and they think that I've put too much challenge in the way of their ability to learn.

The whole thing is stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I've learnt a great deal for how I would make a 'littleDragon 2'

But yeah, the purpose of this thread was not so much about workshopping my game, I wanted to investigate a hunch that I had about refunding games being a common practice among many  android users.

[Muz]

No worries, it's an interesting topic.. something I didn't realize was happening, so it's good to keep in mind for anyone planning to sell an Android game.

[Evan Balster]

Re: going outside the zone, I think you could probably implement a simple check to position and solve that.  Or just do whatever check was tanking performance on a 3 hz basis instead of every frame or something.

It sounds like you should keep kleenex testing and see what kinds of ideas you get.

[Mittens]

Same thing is happening to us.  Just the culture I think.  Android users aren't prepared to pay for games.

A friend of mine told me that he's seen my game on a number of pirate sites being given away for free, after a quick Google search I found 3 such sites on the front page...

It's pretty depressing when you work so hard for months and months to have people cheating you out of getting anything for your effort
People keep telling me to improve my game but they don't understand just how hard it is to find any more motivation for that.

I guess this is poetic justice though, for the time's I've downloaded pirated stuff

[Uykered]

Ya, when I tried selling my stupid Arvoesine game I just saw pirated copies all over front page of google (and getting google alerts of it being on a new upload site every day), pretty much demotivated me from working on anything for a month (even when you know it happens to all games anyway).

[moi]

my stupid Arvoesine game

Why do you keep demeaning that game? I liked arvoesine, it's better than most indie games

[Muz]

Just ignore piracy. People who pirate a cheap game (< $3) probably don't have the means to pay and won't buy it anyway. People who pirate an expensive game may be swayed, but you'll always have those donor/rich types who are willing to pay a premium for a unique game and that counters it.

Sometimes the people who pirate your games early on grow up or get a debit card in a few years and end up buying your sequel, because it's just so much easier than trying to look for a pirate site, going through the captchas, checking if it's really a trojan, copying it to disk, etc.

Even without the piracy, sales would be around the same. Mobile games are actually a lot better with piracy, because it's so convenient to just buy games. You just have to take it like a heartbreak, give yourself some time to accept the truth, then move on.