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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderator: ThemsAllTook)Why has unity3d become so popular?
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IndieEmma
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« on: August 25, 2012, 08:21:18 AM »

I don't get it, why would you pay for an engine or have a half engine. 
Can someone enlightened me?
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2012, 08:28:02 AM »

well, as a computers expert, and a man knowledgable in all things "e" (that stands for electronic, if you put that as a prefix to anything like e-dog or e-phone (careful you MUST consult a patent lawyer!!!) it sounds very cool and futuristic, but it also means im an expert in it and can remove your pet's ovarian cysts or put your phone in a bag of dessicated coconut after you accidentally drop it in the toilet (but i can't promise not to eat the coconut afterwards)) it seems to be because it's good and useful
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2012, 09:00:09 AM »

because it's like game maker, but for 3D, and not as dated. i feel like a lot of the huge crowd of people who used GM (about half a million users) gradually became frustrated with GM's lack of updates and limited capabilities, so they switched to something else which was also easy to use but much more capable

this also applies to people who used MMF2, etc. -- the same process occurred there (almost all the unity users I know used to be either GM or MMF2 users)

but i don't think that's a bad thing, it's something that lets people make games quick without having to spend decades coding engines from scratch. you can have a fully functional and semi-professional looking unity game that has like 5000 lines of code, whereas you can't do that with c++ or something
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 09:15:22 AM »

Unity is a fairly powerful and well-supported engine that has both browser and standalone support. It's free and supports both Javascript and C#. It has a built-in level-editor.

Unity is probably the best free 3D engine (UDK close behind) simply because it's so easy and effective.
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epcc
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 09:28:39 AM »

And because it supports C# that has become one of the most popular languages out there, mostly because microsoft pushes it. Because Unity is cross-platform, companies can have cross-platform support and a huge number of developers to choose from.

Most companies avoid open source software out of fear that some code there might be copyrighted or covered by patents, when they pay for an engine written by a big company, they have a bit more security for some reason. Another option would be writing the engine in house, and that would cost a lot more money than 1500$ or whatever Unity costs now.

Also, one time investment of 1500$ isn't that much money even for a small sized studio.
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IndieEmma
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 01:19:18 PM »

time investment of 1500$


Oh dear god, is that why all the kickstarters ask for so much money! Why don't they just use something free or more from scrap?
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 01:24:01 PM »

probably because 1500$ isn't always worth more than the time you'd save from not having to spend half year or so coding something from "scrap" (i think you mean "scratch")
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Graham-
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 01:33:58 PM »

Coding an engine from scratch is a strong proposition. Leveraging other people's work is always a good way to get more done. Why wouldn't you want to use Unity?

I used to get into these engine wars a little while ago, back when I had to make a decision for my game. I went with UDK. I'm a programmer, and I love programming, and UDK gives me more freedom to do what I want. I can never know exactly what life is like in either world until I experience it, but that's my opinion so far. But if it wasn't UDK it would be Unity. There weren't any others in the running.

ps. One of the best benefits to Unity is it goes multi-platform with a button click. You get linux, iOS, Mac, consoles, PC, web-embed (I believe that's right).
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IndieEmma
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »

probably because 1500$ isn't always worth more than the time you'd save from not having to spend half year or so coding something from "scrap" (i think you mean "scratch")


Yhee scratch, but I've seen a lot of kickstartes where they are like 10 people and like 50% of them are programmers. So why beg for 10000+ for licences? Plus if they code a good engine they can reuse it.
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deathtotheweird
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 01:55:29 PM »

Quote
Yhee scratch, but I've seen a lot of kickstartes where they are like 10 people and like 50% of them are programmers. So why beg for 10000+ for licences? Plus if they code a good engine they can reuse it.

or they can pay for Unity licenses and not worry about the headaches that come along with making an engine. no 5 man programmer team can make something as powerful and extendable and cross platform as Unity in a reasonable time frame. when they purchase a license that gives them the freedom to worry about making their game and not worry about making an engine.

it is well worth the price for those who can afford it.
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Graham-
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2012, 01:56:51 PM »

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Yhee scratch, but I've seen a lot of kickstartes where they are like 10 people and like 50% of them are programmers. So why beg for 10000+ for licences? Plus if they code a good engine they can reuse it.

You can reuse unity too, and whatever code you write that extends it.

Whatever you write on your own will be far from what a packaged engine can give. It's also rare that you can't bend it to your will. Writing your own is only a good idea in these cases:
  1. You find it more interesting.
  2. There is something extremely specific you want to do with your game that a normal engine won't let you, and that thing is very important to your vision. This situation is actually more rare than people think, I think.
  3. Your required tech is small, so the power of a packaged engine isn't worth the need to learn how to manipulate it.
Otherwise why not leverage the tools and thousands of man years that went before you? Some of it is probably useful in some way.
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IndieEmma
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2012, 02:07:05 PM »

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Yhee scratch, but I've seen a lot of kickstartes where they are like 10 people and like 50% of them are programmers. So why beg for 10000+ for licences? Plus if they code a good engine they can reuse it.

You can reuse unity too, and whatever code you write that extends it.

Whatever you write on your own will be far from what a packaged engine can give. It's also rare that you can't bend it to your will. Writing your own is only a good idea in these cases:
  1. You find it more interesting.
  2. There is something extremely specific you want to do with your game that a normal engine won't let you, and that thing is very important to your vision. This situation is actually more rare than people think, I think.
  3. Your required tech is small, so the power of a packaged engine isn't worth the need to learn how to manipulate it.
Otherwise why not leverage the tools and thousands of man years that went before you? Some of it is probably useful in some way.


But with unity3d you are limited to what the engine can do, but if you write your own engine you can do a lot more.
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Graham-
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 02:13:01 PM »

This isn't generally true. Engines restrict you in some ways, but most of the time they just force you to use their API. You can still create whatever you want, whatever shader you want, and so on. The game logic and everything is still up to you. You have full control of physics and loading. You can control when things happen. Sometimes you have to abstract out from their system in a strange way, but then you can do whatever you want.

There are a lot of "things" that engines prevent, but I'm not well-versed enough in Unity to speak confidently about what these are. However, if you have something specific you feel you can't implement with it I'd be interested to know what it is.

Also, use UDK if you want more freedom. That one literally lets you do anything.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 02:14:58 PM »

But with unity3d you are limited to what the engine can do, but if you write your own engine you can do a lot more.

sure, you *can*, but most of the time a game doesn't need anything that an engine can't do

as an illustration of this, i invite people to click on indietom's signature to see what coding your own engine can do, it's pretty impressive
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Graham-
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 02:25:25 PM »

You're right Paul. I don't know what I was thinking.
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Zack Bell
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2012, 02:25:40 PM »

But with unity3d you are limited to what the engine can do, but if you write your own engine you can do a lot more.

sure, you *can*, but most of the time a game doesn't need anything that an engine can't do

as an illustration of this, i invite people to click on indietom's signature to see what coding your own engine can do, it's pretty impressive

 Hand Clap


Of course there are going to be people out there who can write an engine from scratch that will have one feature that something like Unity does not, but I can almost guarantee that the engine won't be anywhere near as useful or robust as Unity is as a whole. Also, make a list of things that your game ideas require that Unity can't accomplish. I can't think of any examples of what Unity would have trouble accomplishing. The small hiccups are fixed by Unity add-ons that people sell within the Unity forums. Plenty of larger companies are even moving towards Unity and away from things like Unreal.

Sorry if that sounds harsh; I'm just not super sure as to whether or not this was supposed to be a joke topic. It's like asking why 'x' movie is popular. It's probably just a good movie.
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st33d
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2012, 03:56:19 PM »

I don't get it, why would you pay for an engine or have a half engine. 
Can someone enlightened me?

Why do people buy anything? To have something that would take to long to create themselves.

Who made your clothes? Whose house are you sitting in? Who assembled the chips in your computer? Why didn't you do it all yourself? Are you lazy or something?
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Klaim
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2012, 04:27:42 PM »

Quote
Of course there are going to be people out there who can write an engine from scratch that will have one feature that something like Unity does not, but I can almost guarantee that the engine won't be anywhere near as useful or robust as Unity is as a whole.

I agree, but I would add that "from scratch" is almost always stupid anyway. I'm making a game that can't be done without a specific engine, but I still use tons of libraries to solve graphic rendering, audio, network, input, even network message code. Libraries are useful for a reason.

That said if you're making a game engine in D you have to do it from scratch...
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EdgeOfProphecy
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2012, 07:04:20 PM »

Ruh roh.

Ok, I'll bite.

It can be very fast to make games/prototypes in Unity.  It does offer a lot of useful tools that are packaged well together, supports multiple languages (C# is a pretty fast language to code with, I will fight anyone who disagrees), and is multi-platform for little effort.

The base license is also free, which does allow for a substantial amount of development to be done on it.  You can release a complete game with the base license, but if you're going to release a commercial product it is quite likely in your interest to plunk down the like grand and a half for the pro license.

The UDK is a great, comparable tool, but I think some people don't like the workflow as well.  Plus, while free, it does have a royalty system attached that may not be what someone wants.  Unity is royalty free, but has its licensing cost.

Like many engines, it abstracts away a lot of the harder, more tedious parts of development.  For some, this is simply a time saver, for others it lowers the technical overhead to the point where they can perform the work they wish to perform.  Depending on the project, it could be a hindrance.

If you're a Linux humping nerd who thinks only the best things in life are coded in C/C++, then you will probably not enjoy Unity.
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ferreiradaselva
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2012, 08:03:02 PM »

By my own experience writing my game engine, it's worth. But only if you have a lot of programming expericence (I have about 10 years of programming experience) and if you are very patient. This month makes one year that I'm programming my game engine and it lack just a bit for it to be quite functional - even more than GM.

1 year of programming, which will save me a lot of time making my games, and I will now pay anything for that. Also, make it cross-platform is easy, since there are libraries like FreeGLUT and OpenGL for it.

Why am I doing this game engine?
1 - Like toast_trip said before, I enjoy a lot this kind of programming.
2 - Also, many game engines impose a very limited system of file management, I do not like it.
3 - I'm a workaholic for programming.
4 - I do not have much money to pay for a third-party product.

EDIT:
5 - And because I don't like to depend of the future of any company.
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