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Farmergnome
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2012, 01:14:03 AM »

Just uploaded 0.14 fixes a few bugs.

played two games, didn't find any bugs.

only thing I noticed is that I got to an enemy with a machine gun, it seemed to me that when the enemy fires the machine gun you trigger multiple gun-firing sounds at the same time, and you get that weird effect that happens when you trigger the same sound twice, where it kinda cancels itself out and sounds all funky.

gameplay wise, I realize you're probably against this but I would personally prefer if I could reload the gun completely just by pressing a button.  I'm playing with the xbox controller, and it's a bit annoying to me because I'm trying to shoot and it doesn't shoot, so I realize it's loading one bullet every time I try to shoot, but I never really know if the next shot is going to come out because I'm too busy dodging bullets to look at the gui and see if I'm done loading bullets.  It seems to me this is all intentional, but in my opinion it detracts from the experience.

but overall a fun game, I quite like the graphics too!

The reload is definitely intentional, and that is the biggest downside of the pistoller, huge reload times, otherwise it kind of unbalances the game that he has 360 precision shoot and 6 shots - keep in mind though there are skills already in-game that speed your reload up to one analog movement....  I think once the sound is done there will be some decent warning sounds for a reload, I already have the giant flashing reload sign above your head visually.  The game just kinda lacks without manual reload - though I might try to add more warning signs to reload, aside from the giant flashing signs already in-game.

Not to totally twist your point, but the reload doesn't seem to be the problem judging from your reply, but rather the position of the shells on the UI?  If I could position them over the character do you think that would help?

I can definitely fix the machine gun sound though.

This is awesome!

Sweet Smiley

EDIT:  I just tried putting the UI over the character and it is fucking god awful, I don't think there is anything that can be done aside from some flashing / decent sound effects, whenever they get done...
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 02:07:54 AM by Farmergnome » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2012, 07:49:34 AM »

Long time lurker. Had to finally just register to say: This is bloody awesome. It's like a Co Op Crimsonland almost, but with a ton more charm to it. The balance between the three classes is just right, and I'm really curious to see how you'll build this puppy later on, and what other neat additions you might have down the pipe (New weapons for each character?)


Played it around a dozen times. No crashes or game altering bugs. Only actual bug was that with the rifleman, some skill choices at level end didn't want to show their descriptions. I'd have concealment twice, with a skill between them that would read as if it was concealment as well.

Most fun I've had with a co op action game since Dungeons of Fayte.
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Farmergnome
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2012, 08:25:22 AM »

Long time lurker. Had to finally just register to say: This is bloody awesome. It's like a Co Op Crimsonland almost, but with a ton more charm to it. The balance between the three classes is just right, and I'm really curious to see how you'll build this puppy later on, and what other neat additions you might have down the pipe (New weapons for each character?)


Played it around a dozen times. No crashes or game altering bugs. Only actual bug was that with the rifleman, some skill choices at level end didn't want to show their descriptions. I'd have concealment twice, with a skill between them that would read as if it was concealment as well.

Most fun I've had with a co op action game since Dungeons of Fayte.

Awesome, sweet that you had some fun with it, I enjoyed making it if that counts  Wink  I will jump on that bug shortly, I have seen it pop up time to time, as far as what todo with it from here, this really depends if people like the demo (If the majority "meh" it I will move onto another game).... but... I am thinking more custom shit for each character, more character only skills such as stealth / dodge etc, and a fair amount more variety with the weapons.  Here is kind of an overview:

Allowing each character to take a 2nd weapon tree that kind of "bends" the core use of the character:


Explosives possibly for Noah (Placed and rollable/throwable)- Slower but potentially more deadly.  (slows him down but gives him a bit of tactical use, rather than just corridor sweeping)

Dual Deringer's for Abel - More even firing pattern.  (read complaints about reloadyness on the pistol above, makes him less potent, though you wont get caught mid firefight reloading)

Melee weapons (stealth melee would be great with the mouse) for Zeke - or some combination of ranged and melee so you can throw a knife or some such. (Zeke really needs some way to combat enemies in his face, this will be the answer hopefully)



And as far as skills, more character specific stuff really - there was one that I was planning to add but never got the chance, something like the TF2 spy/WOLF:ET wearing the enemies clothing type thing - shooting reveals it...  Story, I will keep the dialog minimal, but it would be badass to have some sort of story where you encounter bosses and towns and such, you know... between shooting people in the face on repeat.

Another Edit here, one thing I really like is that its quite procedural each time, it might be interesting to have a story randomly generated from a series of generic western stories and see how that plays out, because it would be awesome to have like, a new experience each time you restart with friends.


But if you have a good idea, I would love to hear it Smiley  It is pretty open at this stage - I haven't invested a lot of time into this game so I don't mind reworking some things for a good idea  Grin

Edit: Also, Nachobeard, fixed those two bugs and increased the attention to the reload in this build :

0.15 WIP DOWNLOAD(All Audio is currently ripped): HERE!

« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 08:57:55 AM by Farmergnome » Logged

Farmergnome
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2012, 05:27:07 PM »

Some people have been hitting game stopping bugs with 2 player especially the joypad controls breaking at some point (usually on the levelup menu) and also some odd shotgun spread behaviour when a controller is plugged in, fixed up the menu alerts a bit nicer now too with any luck, see if this build fixes it:

0.16 WIP DOWNLOAD(All Audio is currently ripped): HERE!
 
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Farmergnome
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2012, 07:25:58 PM »

Did a bit of a balance pass today - the snipers cloak and the heart drop rate got a pretty serious nerf after Mr WalkAway hit me up about how he scored 300k, hopefully that fixes a few things and balances it a little nicer- also enemy AI wont follow you when hidden now.  Finished up the graphical work on the menu and also stopped a highscore bug that lets you submit the same score twice.

0.17 WIP DOWNLOAD(All Audio is currently ripped): HERE!
 

EDIT: what do people think about the sniper rifle?  I am considering swapping it but I am unsure yet.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:30:11 PM by Farmergnome » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2012, 11:48:16 PM »

I like it a lot!  The style is great, and the game has a great feel.  I ended up preferring the mouse character to the keyboard character (didn't get to try the gamepad).  The game is really damn hard, which I like, but I wish it had given me a bit more time to get my bearings and figure out how to play before brutally killing me.  Other than that, I really enjoyed it.  There aren't enough western games.
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« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2012, 12:29:51 AM »

Really glad to see this isn't Actually Dead. It looks and plays real purdy and the unforgiving difficulty level is just right. I'm going to have to go out and lasso a passer-by now, just so I can try out the co-op mode.
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Farmergnome
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« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2012, 04:06:24 AM »

Really glad to see this isn't Actually Dead. It looks and plays real purdy and the unforgiving difficulty level is just right. I'm going to have to go out and lasso a passer-by now, just so I can try out the co-op mode.

Don't stress too much if not, I am adding online multiplayer co-op now, should be ready to test in a few days I think - though it will be troublesome until all the bugs are sorted...  After that I will probably see if I can get the mixtape on Alpha funding or something, finish up Fistfuls storymode/balance/additional weapons, then start the new year fresh with some Rambros revisions  Grin - Online MP is pretty much 100 percent on the cards for Rambros at this point also.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 06:44:41 AM by Farmergnome » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2012, 04:07:44 AM »

Such a piece of greatness.
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Farmergnome
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« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2012, 08:38:18 AM »

Such a piece of greatness.

Nothing on RamBros though  Grin  New Fistful of Gun build, all the sound effects have been replaced by Surasshu - what a champion Smiley  I have locked off the multiplayer, thats reserved for people on my skype and twitter for now, until it becomes more stable.

There will be a fair few audio bugs in this build (and a few sound effects that might need some changing), and quite possibly some gameplay bugs with the introduction of online games, if you see anything odd just post it below.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 04:21:05 PM by Farmergnome » Logged

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« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2012, 11:18:59 AM »

Really fucking awesome. Hand Thumbs Up Right

Some thouhts:

I got the second highest score so I don't think the 1st place dude was cheesing, I wasn't anyway, just managed to last a long while. Though on the train levels you can get a lot of booty from crates since you're less likely to shoot them up and destroy them. Might be better off removing the ones close to the edge since they're the easiest to get at without being unloaded on.

I got massive slow-downs on some levels that at times made it barely playable. These where the one with the two trains rocking up and down, the one with tree rafts going left and right and the one with the horizontal river going along the middle. In the last I only got slowdown when the river was on-screen. System specs are 2.4GHz Intel Celeron, 2GB RAM, ATI Radeon 5450.

Having to completely reload both barrels before being able to fire again was really fucking annoying, especially since there's no visual difference between when you've only fired one chamber and only reloaded one. At the least you should have something that tells you when you can't fire, but I'd personally just let you fire any time with only one chamber loaded. This would probably make it easier since some of my deaths just came from running in thinking I still had a chamber left to fire but instead just hadn't completely reloaded, but I guess you could maybe increase the reload time or something to even it out.

On a couple of levels just seeing the enemy was hard. The train and night levels, especially with snow were pretty bad. It's a nice mix-up and challenge but I dunno, felt a bit cheap, maybe just brighten the dark dudes up a bit.

The view was a bit too central. Made me much too cautious when moving around and I'd often be shooting enemy off-screen, it just slowed the pace down a bit too much for my liking. Something that leads slightly ahead based on the direction your facing would be ideal.

Pretty much the only upgrades I hoped for was extra life (maybe reduce the chance of them appearing a bit since there's no way I would have gotten such a high score without them), then anything that increased range. Extra range made things a whole lot easier since you could shoot enemy well before they got within their range. Might want to tone that down, or perhaps remove that upgrade altogether in favour of making it a weapon drop like the light,heavy,etc shotguns. Aside from the upgrades that increased range and spread all the other upgrades felt a bit pointless. Also I didn't really get how upgrades worked, do you keep them round after round or are they wiped after each round?

The biggest "Awwwww shiiiiit" moment was when a whole fucking bunch of cowboys appeared from either side of the screen and starting closing in on my terrified arse. More one-off stuff like that would be fucking ace, like as you said minor bosses or just stuff that isn't the norm like you come across the entrance to a mine and a shit-tonne of cowboys start running out. After a while the standard move-up screen -> shoot shit, got a little tiring by the end. Even just switching the start position would spice it up a bit, like say starting from the middle.

As you mentioned, having stick bombs for the keyboard dude would have been really useful since there are a lot of times when you've got a group stuck behind a wall or something and stepping out to unload on them all is risky as hell. Would be pretty easy to add upgrades for that like timed, remote and proximity detonators.

Some UI stuff: Make the main menu usable with keyboard, I think you could only use a mouse? If you're playing single-player maybe have the option of turning off the huge character portraits each time the level loads since I'd rather see the level and they're somewhat redundant. Have an option to view highscores from the main menu would be nice, as would going back to main menu by pressing ESC.

I didn't play the other dudes since I firstly don't have a gamepad (would be nice to have the option of playing him using a keyboard) and tried the mouse dude for about 30 seconds and just thought he was pretty awful to play, guess I just like the fast-paced adrenaline sweats of the keyboard dude too much. I've no idea how the sniper dude is supposed to compete score-wise since it takes about an hour to finish a level, while the shotgun dude takes about 30 seconds.

P.S. If you stop developing this fucking phenomenal game I will kill you.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:12:24 AM by caiys » Logged
Farmergnome
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2012, 09:43:33 PM »

Holy jesus fucking shit balls this is fucking awesome. I played the keyboard dude and it's easily the best fucking action game I've played in a long fucking while. Holy shit awesome dude. Hand Thumbs Up RightHand Thumbs Up RightHand Thumbs Up RightHand Thumbs Up RightHand Thumbs Up Right

Here's some shit I thunk:

snip....


Epic post bro, good feedback all around, I will try to address it all, here goes:

-The number one guy actually did it with the sniper, which is understandable, the sniper gets pretty OP late game.

-I did a bit of a speed optimization on the moving levels, should be a little better now, more to come.

- I will change up the reload on the shotgun, but add more delay between reloading to balance it, otherwise he will be a little too good.

-Upgrades are kept until you die, I should probably make that more obvious.

-Extra life upgrades are indeed the holy grail, but with the right combo of upgrades (armor, unstoppable, etc) you can get pretty far also.  I will lower velocity upgrade a bit, it is a little OP - especially on the heavy shotgun.

-The main menu is usable with all the controls currently, keyboard included.

-The sniper is probably the most powerful of the classes currently, at least with the right upgrades.  You have to take your time though.  Keep in mind, his multiplier drops much slower also, and cloak helps Smiley

-Don't worry I will keep adding shit to the game, so long as people enjoy it Smiley  Though the bigger/better game on the cards is RamBros - so at some point I will be jumping back on that.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 10:03:08 PM by Farmergnome » Logged

Ant
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« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2012, 02:18:44 AM »

Ah yeah I just had a proper go of the sniper and he's pretty interesting to play, guess I just wasn't expecting such a divergence in gameplay from the shotgunner, but I liked it. I got an insane score, maybe 2 million plus or so but didn't submit it because he's pretty broken right now. Some stuff from his playthrough:

It seemed to get buggy with enemy seeing you, I think this was maybe to do with the concealment upgrades. At times most of the enemy just wouldn't see you at all and just stand motionless even if you got quite close and kept shooting them, while other times they would do the normal slowly moving towards you. A lot of the times though they would only start shooting when they got very close even if you weren't cloaked.

Cumulative wanted posters give you massive points. I think by the end I was getting like 2000 points for every kill.

The multi-shot is by far the best weapon, combined with a couple of reloader upgrades I was taking out shit-tonne crowds of cowboys. By comparison having a normal rifle was way underpowered on levels with a load coming towards you. Might want to tone down the extremes a bit, so a multi-shot fires 2 shots instead of 3 and either reduce the higher number of enemy or make it so every enemy on the level doesn't come at you at once.

You might want to make it so your own projectiles are destroyed when they reach beyond your view. By basic sniper tactic for most levels was to just sit at the edge of the level and keep shooting the multi-shot off-screen towards the middle until I stopped getting kills.

Some bugs: On the level with the two trains that rock vertically, if you shoot when off-screen it destroys your projectiles and for some reason the bit between the two trains down the middle kept destroying projectiles. On the level with the river some crates spawned on it, moved down the screen but stopped once they hit the edge of the level, not really a bug as such, just looked a bit odd. Shotgun dude can dash through walls.

I think the slowdowns might have something to do with the weather effects. A river alone won't cause slowness, but a river combined with the sandstorm foreground made it barely playable.

//edit
Oh and with the sniper once you finish a level sometimes it would skip straight to the next level without offering an upgrade. Not sure if this was deliberate though, it happened pretty randomly and for a split second I think you can see the upgrade screen before the screen turns black.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 04:15:03 AM by caiys » Logged
Farmergnome
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« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2012, 04:30:27 AM »

Some of those should be fixed in 0.22, I didn't get much time on this tonight as Under the Ocean is about to drop another update, but I made some changes to the sniper to lower his end game power, including putting a cap on stealth and wanted posters - and also nerfing the multishot.  I made some changes to the amount of particles being created also, should help the slowdown problems, but the biggest news is that Surasshu changed up all the music, while its not final, it is definitely a welcome change from the ripped music.

EDIT: I should have fixed that sniper skill select bug also, yell if you still see it...

I still don't like the sniper btw, I am really tempted to change him to a short range character but I will continue to balance him, see where it goes.  Maybe more melee weapons with cloak, tf2 spy style.  Or very short range shooting, throwing tomahawks or something with a higher rate of fire - but also the ability to melee targets that are right ontop of him.  I will test it out, it really is the only way, and everyone can vote on which is more fun  Grin  Whatever it is, it needs to make use of the mouse precision, maybe short ranged weapons with the potential to bounce off walls, hmmm.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 04:21:14 PM by Farmergnome » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2012, 05:36:10 AM »

Quote
Not to totally twist your point, but the reload doesn't seem to be the problem judging from your reply, but rather the position of the shells on the UI?  If I could position them over the character do you think that would help?

EDIT:  I just tried putting the UI over the character and it is fucking god awful, I don't think there is anything that can be done aside from some flashing / decent sound effects, whenever they get done...

such a shame!
I think it definitely works for barabariball (they have the number of jumps you have left on a kind of radial gui thing around players) http://barabariball.com/

but yeah, flashing might be a better idea.
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Farmergnome
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« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2012, 05:44:12 AM »

Quote
Not to totally twist your point, but the reload doesn't seem to be the problem judging from your reply, but rather the position of the shells on the UI?  If I could position them over the character do you think that would help?

EDIT:  I just tried putting the UI over the character and it is fucking god awful, I don't think there is anything that can be done aside from some flashing / decent sound effects, whenever they get done...

such a shame!
I think it definitely works for barabariball (they have the number of jumps you have left on a kind of radial gui thing around players) http://barabariball.com/

but yeah, flashing might be a better idea.

I think it gets thrown off by the fact there is tons of shit flying at you (within a small radius around the character usually)- dodging bullets can mean just moving slightly to the left/right can be the option between life and death, obscuring that area with UI is not going to solve problems.  The 0.22 build has some better sound effects for reload prompts, hopefully that helps.  I will make the shotgun reload independently shortly.

I have to make some indoor levels also - I want to make some smaller corridor type levels - inside of a saloon or whatever.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 06:45:15 AM by Farmergnome » Logged

Ant
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« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2012, 07:16:32 AM »

Sniper is a lot better now, though the points still seem a touch too high. Maybe try reducing the multiplier faster I dunno? Slow-downs were a lot better too, the only barely playable moment was when I had fires, a river, rain and the clouds all at the same time.

The thing about a close-range dude is that you need really fast and tight controls to pull that off, which you can't do with a mouse. I'm forever snagging the edge of walls with the sniper. I can only see two options: either change the pistoler to a closer-range sword wielder that can slice bullets out of the air, or change the sniper to some sort of native american shaman that can walk through terrain.
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« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2012, 07:41:57 AM »

Sniper is a lot better now, though the points still seem a touch too high. Maybe try reducing the multiplier faster I dunno? Slow-downs were a lot better too, the only barely playable moment was when I had fires, a river, rain and the clouds all at the same time.

The thing about a close-range dude is that you need really fast and tight controls to pull that off, which you can't do with a mouse. I'm forever snagging the edge of walls with the sniper. I can only see two options: either change the pistoler to a closer-range sword wielder that can slice bullets out of the air, or change the sniper to some sort of native american shaman that can walk through terrain.

I am thinking he wouldstill retain his cloak, so he still would be the most "tactical" of the characters, though allow him to spam several axes that can corner bounce so the focus isn't so much on directly confronting the enemy, but rather decloaking behind a wall and spamming a volley of axes to bounce and hit someone around a corner.  Hopefully trading range for a little more tactics and a ton more stopping power. I will prototype it anyway see how it plays, it may be too slow being mouse moved to actually work.

EDIT: It is kind of fun, but most of the objects in the game are kind of aligned in a way that you rarely get a good bounce shot off, I think I will do some work on the snipers view cone tomorrow instead and keep the rifle.  I fixed the sniper problem how he clings to walls also, should be no more sticking in 0.23.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 08:11:29 AM by Farmergnome » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2012, 09:46:52 AM »

Game's still playing awesomely, I'll report in if I can break any systems later.


So far though I really like your suggestion for alternate loadouts/character bending. The base idea for each character is really strong (Fitting the powers to the control method). Just adding in new ways to fit the control method would probably be best. The bombs, or even variant weapons.

Best ideas I could think of would be things like Dual pistols for the control pad. Wider spray, but more chance of hitting enemies. Or a variant of the sniper that gives him a knife. Sneak up, do a running attack, have to dodge until you re stealth.

That last one might be a little too character bending though.


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« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2012, 05:43:51 PM »

Game's still playing awesomely, I'll report in if I can break any systems later.


So far though I really like your suggestion for alternate loadouts/character bending. The base idea for each character is really strong (Fitting the powers to the control method). Just adding in new ways to fit the control method would probably be best. The bombs, or even variant weapons.

Best ideas I could think of would be things like Dual pistols for the control pad. Wider spray, but more chance of hitting enemies. Or a variant of the sniper that gives him a knife. Sneak up, do a running attack, have to dodge until you re stealth.

That last one might be a little too character bending though.




The good news is the 2x derringer's for the Abel, and dynamite sticks for Noah works pretty fantastically (I made these this the weapon that bounce off corners with fuckall range, works great), just need a solid 2nd weapon for Zeke.... Any ideas?  Will probably spend a bit of time after the UTO update doing some inside areas, I am thinking they act sort of like an ambush - enemies entering the building periodically until the enemy quota is reached.  Also I want to use the same "Tech" todo high up levels, as the inside levels will have a scrolling back layer (think like 2nd floor of a saloon) - and you can see the lower floor down below.  So definitely going to add some mountain pass areas, maybe train tracks over a river way down below, that sort of thing.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 06:11:41 PM by Farmergnome » Logged

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