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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignGeometric worlds in games
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increpare
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« on: September 09, 2008, 10:51:47 AM »

I was going to post this as a response to Squish, but I figure I might as well just toss it here and see if anybody else feels like nattering on about it.

One of my main reactions to Terry when he told me about his idea for squish was a real excitement that, by going to a 2D perspective, he had manage to reproduce this mechanic of dimensional reduction without requiring, anywhere in the game play the player to change views to look at the various squishing possibilities* (this was the ideal of the game where there were vertical and horizontal squishing possibilities allowed).  This was significant to me: I wouldn't have idly thought it possible to separate out the two mechanics of projection on one hand, and of frequent view-changing on the other.

I haven't played crush too much, and I don't know how Fez is going to handle this, but at the back of my mind I always have sort of reservations about this mechanic of projection as being potentially very unintuitive (in practice, I find that the levels of squish can also behave in rather hard to grasp ways, but at least one can see everything at once in principle).

There's also another game I'd like to bring into this, as a sort of natural complement to these sorts of games, PoV, a puzzle game where one is given the profiles of the various projections of a 3D object, and has to reconstruct it with a limited number of blocks.



In my head, I tend to classify the geometry universes of modern games into 2 categories: observer dependent (Echochrome), and observer independent (Portal)**. Games like Crush/Fez seem to rather undercut such a classification.

*actually, I did provide a tiny amount of code to Squish that rather undercuts my own point of view of this game, which represents the squishing mechanism for some blocks as a rotation through 90 degrees about the horizontal line the player is on.

**I can't think of any other examples for each of the categories off-hand...maybe I don't have any  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 08:29:42 PM by increpare » Logged
agj
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 04:57:15 PM »

I think that they would be 'observer-dependant,' considering that they play with projecting a volumetric world into a plane, which, being all that the player sees, becomes the tangible reality.

Another way to call these two different types of space in games could be subjective and objective space.
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increpare
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 03:23:51 AM »

I think that they would be 'observer-dependant,' considering that they play with projecting a volumetric world into a plane, which, being all that the player sees, becomes the tangible reality.
Thinking about it again, so would I.  Given that in crush, the action carried out by the player is simply a stomp, and how it acts affects the geometry of the world depends on the camera position.

Quote
Another way to call these two different types of space in games could be subjective and objective space.
Sure.  I've thought of that as well, but settled on mine for being a little bit more precise.

I'm trying to trace out an archaeology of this mechanism in my head at the moment: I think I'll have to go get off my ass and do some actual research.
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Cymon
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 08:56:36 AM »

I've been looking for a game similar to POV, except that it was more like buildings viewed from various angles that you had to reconstruct in 3D.

I really need to contact my old teaching buddies.
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increpare
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 03:09:38 PM »

Some other stuff that I would put into the 'subjective' geometry category would be the new prototypes up at ludomancy (here and here). 
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agj
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 05:50:30 PM »

Those are really interesting, and they certainly fit the criteria. They open the doors for other kinds of games, too... Like, um... Maybe Knytt Stories' An Underwater Adventure? Nah.
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increpare
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 07:10:24 PM »

They open the doors for other kinds of games, too... Like, um... Maybe Knytt Stories' An Underwater Adventure? Nah.
Eh?  (I'm not familiar with an underwater adventure)
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agj
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2008, 12:42:45 PM »

You should play it, it's great and short. To describe it while trying not to spoil it too bad: it has the 'logic' and continuity of a dream.

What about Viewtiful Joe? I've only played the DS game, but in that one Joe has an ability to slice the screen and move the two halves independently, so that a stream of water falling from the top can put out a fire that's not directly under it, for instance. Maybe the series has some Braidish examples with the time mechanics that I'm not aware of, as well?
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increpare
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 12:59:07 PM »

What about Viewtiful Joe? I've only played the DS game, but in that one Joe has an ability to slice the screen and move the two halves independently,
Ah yes, I guess this would be similar (certainly in relation to the ludomancy prototypes).  I haven't played it myself yet, actually.  Should probably give it a go.

(i'll have to give KS a go some time, definitely)

actually, going to change the title of this thread...
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