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[increpare]

Maybe my initial brief was a bit hardcore.  So I'm relaxing it a little (but feel free to try for the original if you can!).  The ostensible object of this challenge is to have YOU produce a piece of music that contains a FANTASTIC/REMARKABLE melody.

DO IT

The idea of an endless melody or unendliche Melodie was first put forward by Wagner.  The idea is to have a melody that's not tied rigidly to some medium-scale form, where it has to be a certain length and repeat itself.  Or where it has to have definite ending points at all, or be easy to break down into different sections.

Another reason for Wagner's employment of this idea in his operas was to allow melodies to follow lengthy pieces of dialogue; instead of having the opera being pepper with arias every now and again, there would be a melodic structure spanning the entire operas.

The most famous example I can think of off-hand (other than parts of Wagner's Ring cycle) would be the second movement of Ravel's G-majro piano concerto, which can be found on youtube

.

It doesn't literally have to be endless, but, at least to me, it should have this feeling that it's not constrained by short-term considerations, that it can move freely.

“The principle of the endless melody is the perpetual becoming of a music that never had any reason for starting, any more than it has any reason for ending” - Stravinsky

There's something of a more detailed description in German here (pdf).  My german skills are not sufficient to attempt a literal translation, alas, but I think I've mentioned most of the points in it.

A lot of waffle, I know, but I think it should be doable, and is a good excuse for some of this delicious melody writing that you've all displayed yourselves quite capable of before.

I don't want to lay down rules, but here are some tentative suggestions that might be of help if you're looking for somewhere to start

• have the melody be at least two minutes long
• don't have sections repeat verbatim
• don't be afraid to put in pauses/rests, do put thought into their use
  
• don't have things that sound like 'endings' in the middle of the melody (indeed, how I go about writing stuff like this is generally just by postponing the ending as long as possible )
• it might be worthwhile considering having a number of small motifs/patters/melodic shapes that you can reuse a couple of times over the course of the melody.

The dealing will be Midnight GMT on the 21st of September. That's two-and-a-bit-weeks, which should be enough.

If anyone has anything to add that they think might be of help to others, any musical examples they can think of, or questions to ask please go ahead and shoot.

[Problem Machine]

Oh dang this sounds fun, and I think it's not even too far off of my normal composing style... Well, sometimes.

[Problem Machine]

On second thought, no wait, I actually have no idea how to do this  :D
Any ideas? I'm not sure I understand the assignment!

[Core Xii]

I'm not sure I understand it either. You mean a track that just starts and just ends, without building up or anything?

[György Straub]

I'm always glad for stuff like this. might not participate (damn, gotta get some musicmaking facility set up), but definitely will keep ears open.

[increpare]

The idea is essentially to have a long, unbroken, single melodic line.  The easiest way to do it maybe is to avoid ending a melody.

Here's a small example of a melody.  I could use that as the basis for a long if I wanted by maybe repeating it once, then following that by a different melody, before repeating the initial melody for a third time.  But, in the spirit of unendliche Melodie I try to conscientiously avoid ending thus.  But I sort of ran into another dead end there.  But I tried my best to work my way out of that, and ended up with this, which does wander off a bit far for my liking, and isn't especially long.

If you have a listen to the youtube concerto clip again you might notice that ravel uses similar strategies to extend his melodic lines...

It might be beneficial if you guys try writing some melodic snatches of your own, and I offer some suggestions?

I'm not sure I understand it either. You mean a track that just starts and just ends, without building up or anything?

Having a build-up and an ending is fine.

I'm always glad for stuff like this. might not participate (damn, gotta get some musicmaking facility set up), but definitely will keep ears open.

musicmaking facility?

[muku]

The idea is essentially to have a long, unbroken, single melodic line.  The easiest way to do it maybe is to avoid ending a melody.

You mean like the irreverent rambling I do when improvising?

[Core Xii]

Is this anywhere near what you're going for? (but longer, obviously)

[György Straub]

I'm always glad for stuff like this. might not participate (damn, gotta get some musicmaking facility set up), but definitely will keep ears open.

musicmaking facility?
[/quote]

we're making music, aren't we? composition / production, right?

I'm between FL Studio and Logic. FL studio is incompatible with my mac(hine), and I'm incompatible with Logic, so I don't even go near.

[increpare]

You mean like the irreverent rambling I do when improvising?

Sample?  

Is this anywhere near what you're going for? (but longer, obviously)

In the way that it slides between different sections yes, but in the way that it repeats sever parts twice in a row not as much...you repeat the first phrase twice verbatim, the second phrase though you don't quite repeat the same(just before 15 seconds), in that you change it a little to blend into the next one.  This sort of blending can be a good thing.

(it's an interesting track for all that: I like harmonic style)

Playing about with this reduction/caricature I made of the opening, my ears are sort of hearing this melody which, I'm sure you'll agree is a little repetitious.  So here's one attempt to avoid even the first repetition, and here's it played atop the original.  This was another attempt I made at avoiding the repetition.  

I'm between FL Studio and Logic. FL studio is incompatible with my mac(hine), and I'm incompatible with Logic, so I don't even go near.

Ok software.  I thought you were spending all of your time building a recording studio or something    Have you tried out pxtone or musagi?  They're both free, and do what they do quite well. OH WAIT YOU SAID YOU WERE ON A MAC.  Alas.  Milkytracker then?  Necessity has somewhat warmed me to it.  (you can't find a version of garageband that might work?)

[muku]

You mean like the irreverent rambling I do when improvising?

Sample?  

Uh... the last solo of mine I've actually recorded is several years old now, so I'd be a bit embarrassed to post it. It just doesn't represent my current playing too well. It's also sort of cheesy.

[increpare]

Uh... the last solo of mine I've actually recorded is several years old now, so I'd be a bit embarrassed to post it. It just doesn't represent my current playing too well. It's also sort of cheesy.

Okay, I'll make do with what I have to hand then.  Having listened just now again to your procedurally generated examples from way back, I'd say the ballad.mp3, jazzy.mp3, metal.mp3 and peaceful.mp3 had pretty convincingly extended melodies in them. 

(in principle, 'rambling' sounds promising I guess)

[soundofjw]

I've heard GarageBand isn't THAT bad - but I don't know anything about that sort of stuff for MACs. I'd use Sonar (and I will be using Sonar).

[Problem Machine]

So would this be something like what my music teacher was talking about when he talked about Through-Composition?

[increpare]

So would this be something like what my music teacher was talking about when he talked about Through-Composition?

It would be along those lines, yeah.  But maybe even moreso (or at least to a different extent).  Say it wasn't a metrically regular poem you were setting to song, but a piece of free-verse or prose.  Even better image-wise: say the text consisted of a single sentence without too much punctuation. 

Take the example given on that wiki page of

.  One still has that sentences tend to form closed melodic entities, and there's still a verse/chorus structure.

[muku]

Uh... the last solo of mine I've actually recorded is several years old now, so I'd be a bit embarrassed to post it. It just doesn't represent my current playing too well. It's also sort of cheesy.

Okay, I'll make do with what I have to hand then.  Having listened just now again to your procedurally generated examples from way back, I'd say the ballad.mp3, jazzy.mp3, metal.mp3 and peaceful.mp3 had pretty convincingly extended melodies in them. 

Yeah, the problem is, my actual soloing probably isn't much better than that :D
But regardless, I might record a few minutes of "rambling" for this here challenge, if that's even what you are looking for. I guess you were referring more to actually composed stuff, not improvisation.

[increpare]

Yeah, the problem is, my actual soloing probably isn't much better than that :D
But regardless, I might record a few minutes of "rambling" for this here challenge, if that's even what you are looking for. I guess you were referring more to actually composed stuff, not improvisation.

Anything's good.  Even if your stuff has nothing to do with my guidelines, it's good.  EVERYTHING IS GOOD.  Just music pls.  (I'll be personally looking at them from a melodic point of view, but you guys I guess can do whatever ye want).

[Core Xii]

I guess I should thank you, this is the longest melody I have ever made. Too short for this I guess, but still.

[increpare]

Okay.  I think I should just change the theme of this comp to 'Melody'.  What think you fellows?

I guess I should thank you, this is the longest melody I have ever made. 

Ah.  That's nice.  The lines blend together in a quite satisfying manner, I find.  One thing that I thought that you might want to consider (but have every right and responsibility to reject if you feel it inappropriate) is that the synth melody that enters about 15 seconds in might be better off starting a bit more conventionally and in character with the preceding music before going off in its own direction.

[Synnah]

I'm totally going to enter this. I reckon I can easily do a 2-minute synth solo, and I do need to work on composing in a more progressive manner. Look forward to something in the next few days!

Edit: Okay, since you initially suggested a two-minute melody, I'm going to shoot for.. FOUR MINUTES! Watch as I get bored way before that.