Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1411522 Posts in 69377 Topics- by 58431 Members - Latest Member: Bohdan_Zoshchenko

April 28, 2024, 08:56:42 AM

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessFeedback on Flash Games without risking sponsorships?
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: Feedback on Flash Games without risking sponsorships?  (Read 1549 times)
wMattDodd
Level 0
**


View Profile WWW
« on: September 17, 2012, 07:43:55 AM »

According to FGL.com's FAQ, Flash game sponsors won't have any interest in a game that more than 100 people have seen. That seems to really limit your ability to get feedback while the game is still in development, when you can make the best use of it. And because of this, I've been very paranoid about who I show my first full game to.

I got to thinking that surely this isn't a new problem. Any solutions, suggestions, and experiences that more experienced developers can share with me would be very appreciated.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, or even the wrong forum, but Kirupa wasn't very helpful and it was the next best I could think of. Suggestions on a better place to ask are great too.
Logged

Co-designer and programmer for Eternal Duel of Wits: The Scholar's Tournament

On Twitter as @wMattDodd
Xienen
Level 3
***


Greater Good Games


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 09:32:14 AM »

I'm not experienced in this area, but I think the idea is that you shouldn't post the game on your website or someone else's website to gather feedback.  So, I would directly ask anyone and everyone that you know(in real life or online) that fits into your target market.  I personally believe that requesting feedback is something best done on a more intimate setting anyway, which fits well with their suggestion.
Logged

Skull
Level 0
**



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 10:47:16 AM »

Since they allow you to submit a video for your game directly from youtube, I believe it's ok to provide people with gameplay footage and screenshots without having to worry too much about controlling how many people see them, so feedback based on those is much less restricted.

When it comes to play testing, though, I think you simply shouldn't post your game online. Just do it in a face-to-face fashion (which is a better way to gather info about how people respond to playing your game anyway), and you should be good with the 100 testers restriction.

That said, I think the best place to ask is the FGL boards themselves, or maybe via email to the FGL staff.
Logged

st33d
Guest
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 10:53:17 AM »

Seems a bizarre suggestion to me. I've not seen positive publicity before a game release affect it's ability to sell. Even to sponsors, which the company I work for deals with regularly. Including FGL.

If you've got a good game, why hide it unless it's meant to be a mystery?
Logged
wMattDodd
Level 0
**


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 06:27:25 PM »

I'm not experienced in this area, but I think the idea is that you shouldn't post the game on your website or someone else's website to gather feedback.  So, I would directly ask anyone and everyone that you know(in real life or online) that fits into your target market.  I personally believe that requesting feedback is something best done on a more intimate setting anyway, which fits well with their suggestion.
Since they allow you to submit a video for your game directly from youtube, I believe it's ok to provide people with gameplay footage and screenshots without having to worry too much about controlling how many people see them, so feedback based on those is much less restricted.

When it comes to play testing, though, I think you simply shouldn't post your game online. Just do it in a face-to-face fashion (which is a better way to gather info about how people respond to playing your game anyway), and you should be good with the 100 testers restriction.

That said, I think the best place to ask is the FGL boards themselves, or maybe via email to the FGL staff.

I've already gotten all the feedback I can from family and friends, which isn't much. Almost no one in my family are gamers, and while nearly all my friends are, this type of game isn't their cup of tea. I'd love to do face-to-face playtesting, but outside of a booth at a con which I can't afford, I have no idea how I'd do that. My experience with my Ludum Dare game was that I didn't get meaningful feedback until nearly 1,000 views, which is quite a bit more than 100.

I did think to ask on the FGL.com forums, but none of the forums there seem remotely applicable, and moreover there's almost no one /on/ the forums there.

Seems a bizarre suggestion to me. I've not seen positive publicity before a game release affect it's ability to sell. Even to sponsors, which the company I work for deals with regularly. Including FGL.

If you've got a good game, why hide it unless it's meant to be a mystery?

It's a bit baffling to me as well, and I would love nothing more than to be able to solicit feedback from as many people as I can. I just don't want to lose all ability to monetize to do so.

From the FGL.com Developer's FAQ:
"But there's a catch: Flash games lose most of their value to sponsors if they have already been exposed to the public. So make sure you don't reveal your game to the public before it is sold! An exposed game is worth very little to sponsors and we probably won't be able to sell it. For example, don't place your game on Newgrounds or Kongregate before you complete the bidding. You can get valuable feedback there, but the cost may be the ability to sell your game at all!

To work around this problem, FGL developers give each other feedback on their games. We also have a new system called the Preview Players program, where game-players sign an NDA to play games and give you feedback. Finally, we have a for-pay service called First Impressions where random users play your game for a few minutes and give you their first impressions. All of these options help you play-test your game without risking overexposure to the general internet. (Of course, if you have a private list of people who can test for you, that works too! Just make sure that the game doesn't leak out.)"

I don't have the money to pay for any substantial use of First Impressions, and I'd like to get feedback from more than just random Flash game devs (especially because I'm approaching the development more like a traditional indie game, I've spent more than a year on it).

If you have any more experience/info to share, I'd love to hear it, because I'm not very satisfied with things as they appear.
Logged

Co-designer and programmer for Eternal Duel of Wits: The Scholar's Tournament

On Twitter as @wMattDodd
bateleur
Level 10
*****



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 12:47:28 AM »

If you want playtesting from people who aren't in the same location, just put the game on a password protected web page and give the password only to trusted testers.

All the publishers on FGL are trying to do is avoid a situation where your game has effectively already been published and therefore the opportunity for ad revenue lost. It's easy to keep them happy: don't publish your game before you sell it to them!
Logged

st33d
Guest
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 12:47:58 AM »

Ah. Yeah, the Newgrounds and Kongregate thing has sod all to do with exposure to the public. It has to do with exposure to sites that steal and crack open games. You only put games on Newgrounds and Kongregate if you want the games to spread around the internet (and ideally have advertising solutions embedded in the games).

That said, if you've made a particularly famous game, people will still want to license it. The company I work for gets asked for licenses to games which you can actually host for free. Sponsors want exclusives for sure but they want their branding in a decent game above all else.

Make the game the way you want to make it. Just don't upload to Newgrounds and Kongregate if you want to license it, because all those sponsors will consider your game to be free to host if it is.
Logged
Moczan
Guest
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 11:38:34 AM »

Actually st33d is a bit misleading here, because Nitrome's licensing deals are a bit different than typical Flash developer's going through FGL or e-mailing sponsors on your own. The rule of thumb is that if your game can be googled, your are out of exclusive/primary sponsorship and can only rely on non-exclusive deals which are (most of the time) only the fraction of what you can earn through the main one.
Logged
StrictlyDominant
Level 0
**



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 07:33:33 PM »

(For those unfamiliar) Flash game sponsors pay to have the game exclusive to their website so that it draws traffic to their portal to earn their site traffic until the game is released to the other portals for non-exclusive sponsorships.
---

I recommend networking with people and ask them to test the games that you have in development once they have earned your trust.  While I was creating Flash games a few years ago I asked a handful of programmers to test my games out, as well as players that I had been playing games with for years.  It can be beneficial to just ask players as well, because they are not as likely to steal your work.
Logged
Moczan
Guest
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 11:11:57 AM »

(For those unfamiliar) Flash game sponsors pay to have the game exclusive to their website so that it draws traffic to their portal to earn their site traffic until the game is released to the other portals for non-exclusive sponsorships.
---

I recommend networking with people and ask them to test the games that you have in development once they have earned your trust.  While I was creating Flash games a few years ago I asked a handful of programmers to test my games out, as well as players that I had been playing games with for years.  It can be beneficial to just ask players as well, because they are not as likely to steal your work.

Christ, this is also partially wrong. The whole sponsorship works like an advertisement. You put your sponsor's logo into your game, it spread like crazy over all other game sites, people click sponsor's logo/more games button, go to sponsor's site and he earns money (mainly ads) from there. That 99% deals on FGL. When you have a primary deal, you can then sell non-exclusive licenses, which are version with swapped branding but are bound to sponsor's site by site-lock. Those are used by sponsor's to keep traffic on their site.

There are only few guys like Nitrome who 'self-sponsor' - they release games with their branding on their site keeping their audience and it's ad's revenue to themselves while selling licenses to other sponsors. Or different variations of that model.
Logged
wMattDodd
Level 0
**


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 11:36:22 AM »

Thanks everyone, it's been informative.
Logged

Co-designer and programmer for Eternal Duel of Wits: The Scholar's Tournament

On Twitter as @wMattDodd
Pages: [1]
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic