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[Annabelle Kennedy]

i agree with xion those are very good ideas...

[Blaster]

I mainly want more interaction with the towns folk before improvement of the farming mechanics (although these could no doubt be improved upon). More intelligent NPCs with more complicated/believable behaviour. I'm not sure how you would translate this into game mechanics, though.

I guess I see harvest moon as mainly a romance, even if that part of the game is rather simple and as formulaic as the farming. And, well, from this point of view if you wanted to diverge from the formula, one could say that the game would be improved by moving further away from a farm sim and closer towards a dating sim.

(even though I'm opposed to the idea)

(...but I would still play it)

[Bennett]

I don't hate the romance portion of the game. I just think that it's usually implemented in such a flimsy, shallow way, that it wouldn't make the game any worse to just remove it entirely. If anyone has suggestions on how that aspect of the game could be improved (and maybe remove the farming part), share!

[neon]

It's not the formula that's flawed, it's the execution.

i think Xion hit the nail on the head.  with a 5-ton sledgehammer.

i'd say more, but i think xion pretty much summed everything up neatly.  gg Xion 

[raiten]

I agree with everyone who disagreed with benzido  . The balance between farming / socializing (SimFarm/The Sims) is what makes the game so good. If you'd go overboard in any direction, the game would lose a lot of it's charm.

[KennEH!]

This sounds like it will develop into something.

I have only played Harvest Moon 64, in which I loved every pixel. I would like to play another one, but have no idea which.

[mrfredman]

Have you guys every played Plant Tycoon, because I feel if Harvest Moon and Plant Tycoon had a baby it would be a profoundly incredible game. I've only played harvest moon on the GBA, and I agree that one of its biggest drawbacks is all of the stupid stuff you have to run around town for. I just want to stay on my farm and play the super repetitive plant-water-harvest game, but I would be so much more into it if the plants I could grow were unique and customizable, thats what would really make it a great game for me.

[Matt Thorson]

I think the problem with Harvest Moon is it's a game about time management where every task you have to do is boring.

It would be better if every day you just filled out a form of what you will do that day, and it instantly showed you the results in a sort of slideshow thing.

I'd say HM is an example of the developers thinking too big.  Everything in the game is only really fun in the context of the big picture.  Actually doing the tasks is boring as hell (WoW syndrome).

[KennEH!]

I'd say HM is an example of the developers thinking too big.  Everything in the game is only really fun in the context of the big picture.  Actually doing the tasks is boring as hell (WoW syndrome).

There are many games that follow that formula and do well. Some parts by themselves aren't to great, but when put together make for a great game.

[raiten]

I'd say HM is an example of the developers thinking too big.  Everything in the game is only really fun in the context of the big picture.  Actually doing the tasks is boring as hell (WoW syndrome).

How can a game that popular be an example of "thinking too big"? Somehow people seem to enjoy the chores, even though the effort is not instantly rewarded.

[Matt Thorson]

I'd say HM is an example of the developers thinking too big.  Everything in the game is only really fun in the context of the big picture.  Actually doing the tasks is boring as hell (WoW syndrome).

How can a game that popular be an example of "thinking too big"? Somehow people seem to enjoy the chores, even though the effort is not instantly rewarded.

Hey, I didn't say anything about how popular it is.  Isn't WoW one of the most popular games ever?  It uses the same treadmill formula.

The game is about making arbitrary progress - that's really it.  I loved HM64 when I was a kid, but when I replayed it recently I couldn't stand it.  It really is just a treadmill - the tasks are incredibly boring to do, and they get more boring the further you get in the game!  It's all just chasing that carrot of one more home renovation or whatever.

Some people can find that fun (I did at one time, and there is definitely a niche market for that kind of thing), but I think we can do much better.  The treadmill might actually be an effective game design model if you concentrate on making the tasks fun on their own.

Therefore, to answer the question: "How can we improve Harvest Moon?"

My thought would be: Concentrate on making the individual tasks both fun on their own and meaningful to your progress in the big picture of the entire game.

Edit: To clarify, by "thinking too big" I meant they designed every aspect only thinking of how it affects the player in the long-run.  Nothing is really designed to be fun or engaging as you are doing it.  Sorry, but brushing all your animals and watering all your plants every morning is just plain boring, at least once the novelty of "holy crap I'm a farmer" wears off after day 2.

[raiten]

Edit: To clarify, by "thinking too big" I meant they designed every aspect only thinking of how it affects the player in the long-run.  Nothing is really designed to be fun or engaging as you are doing it.  Sorry, but brushing all your animals and watering all your plants every morning is just plain boring, at least once the novelty of "holy crap I'm a farmer" wears off after day 2.

Yeah, but it's ultimately rewarding though, just that it isn't instant. I don't know, maybe part of it has to be grinding? I'm not really sure the game would be better if you made every part of tending to the farm instantly rewarding/fun to do. I mean, the concept that you have to do a lot of work that bears fruit only in the end, isn't that all what Harvest Moon is about? If every step of growing tomatoes were fun, I wonder whether the sense of accomplishment would be as big.

[Mr Dumle]

I think that it's the aestetics that needs changing. I would set it in 2d platform and make a detailed and interactive environment. Imagine a desolate, dead farm were everything is brown and withered becoming a beautiful place with animals and vegitation everywhere. That would make grinding worth the effort. That wouldn't work in 2d overhead. It's just so grid based and stiff, you know?
That's my two cents anyway.

[raiten]

I think that it's the aesthetics that needs changing. I would set it in 2d platform and make a detailed and interactive environment. Imagine a desolate, dead farm were everything is brown and withered becoming a beautiful place with animals and vegetation everywhere. That would make grinding worth the effort. That wouldn't work in 2d overhead. It's just so grid based and stiff, you know?
That's my two cents anyway.

The original aesthetics have a lot of charm, though.

[Aaron G.]

I always wanted to see dialogue trees in Harvest Moon, particularly for the romantic characters.  It would also be nice if villagers didn't repeat themselves every day.

I always enjoyed building up relationships with the villagers as much if not more than the farming bits.

Just my two cents.

[raiten]

I always wanted to see dialogue trees in Harvest Moon, particularly for the romantic characters.  It would also be nice if villagers didn't repeat themselves every day.

I always enjoyed building up relationships with the villagers as much if not more than the farming bits.

Just my two cents.

There are a few dialogue trees though, at least in the first GC version. I remember it happening at least once, when you enter the rich lady's house for the first time, her granddaughter tells you a sad story about how she lost her passion for piano because her grandmother turned into a perfectionist. In response, you can say "Try harder", and she becomes sad, or "Just try and have fun", and she becomes glad.

Also, here's something funny on the same topic. http://www.hmfarm.com/page.php?file=dreamgame

[KennEH!]

Also, here's something funny on the same topic. http://www.hmfarm.com/page.php?file=dreamgame

Some were good, a lot were junk.

[FARTRON]

I think flushing out the personal side of the game is a better idea than abandoning it. Also, don't set it during the great depression, we've got similar and more interesting problems now.

How to make it more interesting in today's climate? Well some simple irrigation would be good, but keep automation at a minimum. Or perhaps provide expensive automation as an incentive to earn a lot of money.
Provide cheap fertilizer in the beginning, but make it gradually more expensive. Raise shipping costs too. Model farm subsidization, either on random waves each year (gotta go with turnips this year!) or perhaps even model politician favor. Hold festivals on your farm and sponsor community events, and invite the mayor over for a speech.

[raiten]

Also, here's something funny on the same topic. http://www.hmfarm.com/page.php?file=dreamgame

Some were good, a lot were junk.

Some were good, most were stupid, but they do show that the kids that enjoy the game the most aren't exactly playing it because of the farming simulation part.

[Reiss]

Not to jump on the bandwagon, but I also agree with Xion on the "execution is flawed" part.

Howeverrr...  Better's pretty subjective, and part of the charm of Harvest Moon is its simplicity.  The fact that it's pretty hard to permanently fuck up makes the game relaxing.  Adding too many features, or making death too easy, would change the nature of the game almost as certainly as removing the town would.  Harvest Moon had a dichotomy between time forced to spend on the farm "working," and time exploring the village.  Honestly, I think the village was the least fleshed out portion of the game, not the farm.  The farm had enough options to keep you occupied for a while making money, but that wasn't the sole purpose of the game - it was also your interaction with the village and its inhabitants. 

Unfortunately, the village didn't have all too much going on, as others have noted.  Occasionally there were holidays, but they were random and depended on the time of day you played - the time of day in the real world.  While randomized events are fun (and can, in moderation, keep the rest of the time feeling a bit more sleepy, which I think was the point), the problem was that the rest of the time could often feel not just cozy and sleepy, but boring.

Maybe more interactions with the townsfolk?  The game always seemed to me to be less of a true "farming simulation" and more of a "simulate life in a sleepy small town, doing relaxing things, because we're losing things as a society if all we know is increasing urbanization."  Kind of Miyazaki-like, if you will.