The Monster King
|
 |
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2012, 07:30:45 AM » |
|
kill all nerds
i repeat
kill all nerds
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Aik
Level 6
|
 |
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2012, 07:57:18 AM » |
|
For what it's worth, Sengoku Rance is a genuinely good game. Perhaps you should go and play it before writing diatribes against how horribly it portrays rape and whatnot. I think the reality of it is less disturbing than the idea of it - it's pretty tame, really.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Manuel Magalhães
|
 |
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2012, 08:07:31 AM » |
|
What TeeGee said. When you shoot enemies in, say, Uncharted (that's the game I'm playing), you just see some guys flipping over. No backstory, no emotions arising, just falling. Like in a B-Movie. While both murder and rape aren't fun at least with murder there can be a valid justification to it (like self-defense, for instance). Raping is a culture with only one goal: pleasure for the rapist.
Playing as a guy in a video-game murdering his best pal because the later is on some heavy drugs and wants to kill him (lol example) is something that, while I get shocked and sad by it, I can understand it as an reasonable, albeit unfortunate, action. Playing as a guy in a video-game raping someone is just shocking and disgusting.
Neither rape or murder are suitable for a comedy, though.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
|
|
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 08:14:48 AM by Мanuel Мagalhães »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Aik
Level 6
|
 |
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2012, 08:33:21 AM » |
|
Do I have some kind of horribly warped values if I think that rape in porn is not a terrible thing? It's porn! Stop holding it to standards that aren't applicable to it.
And no, it's not some men-are-horrible thing either, given otome game rape fantasy thing (not that I have any first-hand knowledge on that one...).
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
s0
|
 |
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2012, 08:41:32 AM » |
|
rape is a much more sensitive issue than murder, even though it's just as bad (comparing peoples' suffering is stupid so let's leave it at that).
rape wasn't even openly talked about until fairly recently and there are still huge problems with rape victims being too ashamed to report the crime, not being taken seriously by the authorities, being blamed for their own rape etc. there's no real consensus on rape whereas with murder it's pretty clear cut (i.e. the overwhelming majority thinks it's bad). that's why rape needs to be handled with much more care in entertainment/the media than murder.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Manuel Magalhães
|
 |
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2012, 09:07:39 AM » |
|
(comparing peoples' suffering is stupid so let's leave it at that).
While I agree, were you replying to my comment? I haven't compared someone's suffering in both situations. I compared the legitimity of raping someone versus murdering someone, which is different.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
s0
|
 |
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2012, 09:12:54 AM » |
|
no not at all. i was just making it clear that my sentence didn't imply i want to get into the specifics of what's "worse," because there's no way for that to be anything but completely asinine.
sorry for the confusion. i typed my other post on a phone so by the time i was finished there were already like 5 new replies lol.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
SundownKid
|
 |
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2012, 10:23:54 AM » |
|
I facepalmed upon reading this thread. That game is clearly targeted towards the otaku population, and I don't think it could qualify as a typical game in any sense of the term. I'm sure a man would have no problem calling it a comedy, but exploitation of women turns me off, big time. I don't even think a lot of Japanese people (let alone women, period) would support this kind of stuff, and it doesn't mean the genre of interactive stories can't expand past the shut-in demographic. It's just gross for me, period.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
vinheim3
|
 |
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2012, 10:54:31 AM » |
|
Ok, Rance doesn't exactly Rape, it's more like forced consensual sex
Also, the guy in Monster Girl Quest actually just succumbs to the pleasure, so in a sense, it's also consensual
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
VDZ
|
 |
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2012, 11:18:05 AM » |
|
I've heard this argument before but it's a bit of a straw man. Violence is indeed widely accepted by our culture as something that can be fun, but murder is not.
For example -- look at how action movies handle their gratuitous shootouts. Goons are always anonymous and when shot/stabbed/exploded they instantly die in a non-realistic manner. If you would actually see close ups of their faces while they are in agony, scream in pain and beg for their lives, it would quickly take a very disturbing turn.
That's because of the 'faces in agony and screaming in pain' part. Any serious issue is difficult to laugh about if you portray it seriously. The point of a comedic portrayal is that it isn't portrayed seriously, instead generally portraying it in an exaggerated and trivialized way. This is how murder is portrayed in a funny way:  Portraying it like this makes it a lot less funny:  It's no different with rape. Realistic portrayals are not at all funny, but you can also depict it as something funny.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
hanako
|
 |
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2012, 11:57:20 AM » |
|
I always find it interesting how violence and murder and even male on male prison rape can be considered funny but male on female rape is totally and utterly out of the question.
While many people *think* this, it isn't actually so - check out any sufficiently detailed listing of rape as comedy / black comedy and there are * plenty* of male on female examples. Not the least being the stuff we've just mentioned that started this reaction in the first place. There are some people for whom it is the case that male-on-male rape is funny and male-on-female rape is not ever. There are some people for whom it is the case that BOTH are funny. There are some people who will never ever find EITHER funny and will get just as angry. There are many people for whom it depends on context and portrayal. Ok, Rance doesn't exactly Rape, it's more like forced consensual sex
Also, the guy in Monster Girl Quest actually just succumbs to the pleasure, so in a sense, it's also consensual
Not sure if you were serious, but - physical pleasure != consent. (And this confusion is one of the reasons that some people DO think that it's not possible to rape a man, because he has to enjoy it because guys are horny all the time, and if he enjoys it it's not rape!... So many wrong ideas there.) Anyway, it's sort of sad that a visual novel thread has yet again devolved into discussion of porn rather than discussion of games. Yes, of course the medium is chock full of porn. There are a bazillion porn VNs. There are also a bazillion porn movies and porn websites, that doesn't mean nothing but porn exists, Avenue Q songs aside. Of course there are also a number of japanese-made VNs which would in my opinion be greatly improved by removing the sex scenes!
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Manuel Magalhães
|
 |
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2012, 12:23:39 PM » |
|
no not at all. i was just making it clear that my sentence didn't imply i want to get into the specifics of what's "worse," because there's no way for that to be anything but completely asinine.
sorry for the confusion. i typed my other post on a phone so by the time i was finished there were already like 5 new replies lol.
Ah, ok. No need to apologize, I just didn't want anything from my comment to be unclear.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jondog
|
 |
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2012, 08:02:51 AM » |
|
I'd like to get into visual novels because I like story heavy things with lots of character interaction and I'll probably spend a bunch of time looking at that database site, so thanks for that link VDZ.
Only one I've played was Analogue and I didn't really like it, not enough actual interaction and the text dump story felt like it was forcing an opinion on me which I already agreed with. At the end I tried to get both AI but that just ended up with a dead end because I didn't trigger the specific event earlier. I did think all the CLI stuff was rather fun though.
Also Hanako, I think your games look pretty cute and it would be cool to see the ones on greenlight eventually make their way to steam proper.
|
|
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 08:45:56 AM by Jono »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
SirNiko
|
 |
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2012, 12:48:29 PM » |
|
I played Hatoful Boyfriend and found it enjoyable. I was a little turned off at first, because it was so simple, but once you just treated it like a very simple choose-an-adventure, it was fun. Then the final chapter throws you for a loop by being completely different from everything before, while still tying together all the themes from the previous chapters. It also was kind of fun when you get to a point where you get an odd choice, like when the extra wish appears in your choices for the wishing festival. It was fun to stop and consider whether or not it is a wise idea to pick the bizarre choice.
Phoenix Wright is pretty much a puzzle game with some light adventure elements during the investigation stages. The court sections of the game (which are emphasized more in the later games in the series) are tests of your memory as you try to remember the clues and pinpoint the lies. If that challenge wasn't present, I don't think I would have enjoyed it nearly as much.
I'm just not that much into Visual Novels, but I'm okay with them existing.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
saguaro
Guest
|
 |
« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2012, 05:59:10 PM » |
|
Attempting to steer this conversation to Western VNs cause goddamn I love em. There isn't a person on this forum that that wouldn't like and appreciate Terminal Love. "Your computer has been hacked. Armed with little more than sassy AI comrades and your own volition, you must uncover the truth behind your assailant in a terminal-based, chiptune, “visual” novel adventure. Eight total endings."Encarmine did well at LD24 and they went on to make a longer commercial version. And then there's Young Earth Road Trip, quite possibly the greatest religious commentary of our age. did you see what i did there
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|