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Author Topic: XCOM, X-COM and X+COM  (Read 20774 times)
starsrift
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« Reply #160 on: February 04, 2016, 06:50:29 AM »

 Hand Shake Left Kiss Hand Shake Right
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« Reply #161 on: February 04, 2016, 08:59:05 AM »

FINE w/ME
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« Reply #162 on: February 04, 2016, 09:54:25 AM »

Wine F/me
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« Reply #163 on: February 04, 2016, 05:13:25 PM »

this gam doesn't have the greatest performance. i can only run it at min settings and there are still some framerate hiccups. i guess im gonna need a better pee cee at some point. also the tutorial is really really overlong, but i'm probably just saying that because im already familiar with xcom EU and should have just skipped it. there are some new mechanics, but nothing revolutionary from what i'm seeing. my favorite part is probably the more varied mission objectives.
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« Reply #164 on: February 04, 2016, 06:44:25 PM »

uhhhh how do you enable ironman in this thing? don't tell me i have to unlock it first or some dumb shit.

edit: oh lol, you have to disable the tutorial in the new game menu and then click start to get a popup that lets u enable ironman. UI Design™

anyway, so far this seems like it's mechanically even better than EW. don't take that as a final word tho, i haven't explored the systems enough yet.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 06:57:00 PM by Silbereisen » Logged
starsrift
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« Reply #165 on: February 05, 2016, 02:03:09 AM »

I'm not sure that I like it as much. And the real problem for me is the graphics / UI. Maybe some of it is because I have an older computer and I can't turn all the options on and put it in high-res, but for instance, look at this. This is my first procedural (I think?) mission after the two tutorial/story ones:



Just about every damn thing on the screen is a different shade of blue. Why aren't my soldiers distinct and easy to make out from the grid? Why do the UI elements fade into the terrain - of which they are the same color! - to make them harder to see?

Of that quartet of soldiers on the bottom, the top left guy is a sexy-lookin' black bald dude. The guy on the bottom right is wearing a green ballcap. Yet because of lighting and stuff, their heads are very nearly the same color.

Also, they've scaled the view to show more of the map this time around, making your people look smaller, and even more indistinct. My first impressions are not great. Sad

/ those jaggies aren't visible in the actual game screen, I think they are compression artifacts



EDIT:
Here's a couple turns in:


Dude on the left is supposed to be a enemy sergeant or something and have red piping on his headgear to make him distinctive. At least, that's how he looks in the action shots, yet it's all disappeared into a sorta-blurry smear here. He's hardly distinctive from his lesser alien soldier on the right, I certainly can't easily tell the difference, except for the red HP bars.

Not likin' this at all. Maybe it's just this tileset. Sad
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 02:20:42 AM by starsrift » Logged

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« Reply #166 on: February 05, 2016, 02:54:09 AM »

i'm playing on minimal settings (on my monitor's native res tho) and i can see everything just fine.  Shrug

i really hope they fix the loading times btw. those are clearly bugged/poorly optimized (and yes i'm using a SSD).
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starsrift
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« Reply #167 on: February 05, 2016, 04:05:32 AM »

Confirmed, the resolution was the fault, here. Turned it up, and I'm good to go.
/ RIP squaddie sexymans, my fifth mission was a terror attack ("retaliation"). Good ol' X-COM RNG is still here
// And Canadians still best snipers
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« Reply #168 on: February 05, 2016, 04:19:41 AM »

What's the deal with the resolution options? It seems like I can't pick anything higher than 1336x768 and it makes the game look like ass.

Edit: Never mind, when I restarted the game all the options were available. I have no idea what the issue was before though...
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« Reply #169 on: February 05, 2016, 04:39:37 AM »

Release bugzzz
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #170 on: February 05, 2016, 12:57:05 PM »

yeah those screenshots looked like a resolution issue (wow the jaggies haha)
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« Reply #171 on: February 05, 2016, 04:16:43 PM »

To my fellow Shitty Computer Owners: I tweaked some stuff in

Code:
My Documents\My Games\XCOM2\XComGame\Config\XCOMEngine.ini

and the game runs perfectly smooth on my laptop now and even looks somewhat cleaner. here are some of my tweaks

LensFlares=False
FogVolumes=False
bAllowLightShafts=False
Distortion=False
AllowRadialBlur=False

You can also use this guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/11cvda/performance_tweaks_for_xcom_ive_tested_on_the_ini/

Most of these tweaks still work since it's the same engine
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« Reply #172 on: February 05, 2016, 04:59:12 PM »

is it just me or is this game a lot harder than xcom EU? the "normal" (veteran) difficulty is already as hard as, if not harder than classic in EU.
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« Reply #173 on: February 05, 2016, 05:57:26 PM »

improvement: the chief scientist doesn't have an annoying fake accent this time around. tho stilted speech mannerisms persist.
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starsrift
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« Reply #174 on: February 05, 2016, 06:30:55 PM »

is it just me or is this game a lot harder than xcom EU? the "normal" (veteran) difficulty is already as hard as, if not harder than classic in EU.

The tactical portion isn't harder, really. I've only lost one dude, in addition to the two mandatory ones in the tutorial, so far. But the "stealth" gimmick can lead you into some silly situations if you're not careful, because it's such a retarded gimmick. There's nothing to be gained by trying to sneak past patrols, you'll just wind up fighting on multiple fronts as you're englobed, and that's hard as fuck.

The strategy portion is lots harder. The gating of tech and options behind research and buildings is more strict than it was in EU, and scrambling for scientists and engineers is so much harder. I've still only got one engineer, for instance, and it's really choking my pipeline. I've been finding a ton of scientists, which means the game is appraising my science advances and throwing stuff at me I have the research to defeat, but not the items or facilities (so I don't actually have them). I'm not in dire straits yet - like I said, I've only lost the one soldier so far.
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« Reply #175 on: February 05, 2016, 06:45:56 PM »

i use the concealment mechanic mainly for scoping enemy locations and then setting up an ambush which gives me an advantage at the start of a mission. i don't think you're really meant to sneak past patrols seeing as you have to kill all enemies in most missions anyway.
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starsrift
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« Reply #176 on: February 05, 2016, 11:47:10 PM »

This "concealment" thing is really annoying me, super-duper much. It's like a chain of events that you see as a programmer and you stare at the guy and ask him why he just didn't use a different implementation.
(In X-Com: EU)
1. "Hey, guys, how about we make cover super important? It was kind of understated in the original X-Com, and maybe it's a personal bugbear of mine, so let's give crazy bonuses and penalties oriented around it!"
2. "Huh. Well, stumbling into an enemy means that you can just shoot the hell out of it because it's out in the open now, thanks to the cover system, letting you steamroll the map. Hey, let's give a little movement and have the aliens scurrying for cover when they're seen, that'd fix that!"
(2a. Simplification of AP system and removal(mostly) of multiple shots per turn may also have entered this conversation at some point.)

Time to make X-Com 2:
3. "Hey guys, the action is slow to start because everyone hates that the aliens get an intrinsic discovery advantage. So, how do we patch that? Wait, I know, we can have a concealment mode! We'll still have all the annoying shit from the first time, but instead, we'll give the player one opportunity per map to have the advantage! Doesn't matter if the aliens and the x-com guys lose track of each other later, we just want it to happen once."

They really needed to go back and examine their AP/cover systems and rework them, rather than just push in this sloppy gameplay patch of "concealment".
I really wanted to like this game, I've been so hyped for it. But it's letting me down in a bunch of different ways. I'll probably talk whine about more later on. And maybe I'm set on a negative course after my disastrous first impression. Sad
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« Reply #177 on: February 06, 2016, 04:32:41 AM »

given that you apparently disliked xcom EU, why did you expect to like this?

Quote
They really needed to go back and examine their AP/cover systems and rework them

why? these systems work fine for what the game tries to do. specifically i don't understand what the problem with the lack of "AP" is, other than it being different from the original x-com. the 1 move + 1 other action system is a common mechanic in tactical skirmish games that usually works well in them. and it works well in xcom. nothing wrong with the cover system (which the entire gameplay dynamic is based around) or the free move aliens get either. the real problem is that EU doesn't pressure you to do anything at all (outside of timed missions), which is where the slowness comes from.
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starsrift
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« Reply #178 on: February 06, 2016, 05:58:49 AM »

given that you apparently disliked xcom EU, why did you expect to like this?

No, I really liked X-Com:EU. I played the shit out of it. Steam records me at 120 hrs, and I know it was longer than that, because there was a bug during much of that time where it wouldn't record your hours correctly if you played in offline mode. Probably more like 200 hrs.
And I was so pleased to have a modern X-Com that I could look past its flaws, although I could still note they were there. I don't think I dislike X-Com 2, I just think maybe it could've been a better game than what we got. Disappointed.

Quote
They really needed to go back and examine their AP/cover systems and rework them

why? these systems work fine for what the game tries to do. specifically i don't understand what the problem with the lack of "AP" is, other than it being different from the original x-com. the 1 move + 1 other action system is a common mechanic in tactical skirmish games that usually works well in them. and it works well in xcom. nothing wrong with the cover system (which the entire gameplay dynamic is based around)

These systems do work fine. They're not elegant, and they're simple, but they work pretty satisfactorily.

Quote
or the free move aliens get either.
No, this was actually a major problem, because it forced the player to advance through the maps at all times as if they were under surveillance and play extremely cautiously, moving 1/2 speed per round (to sit in Overwatch). Later on you could get around this with a set of snipers with Squadsight and blunder into enemies with your assault units, to then get your snipers to hit them from afar, but the 'free move' is a silly gimmick that was introduced in order to make up for the extreme cover bonuses/penalties.

This problem of crawling through maps was also present in the original X-Com, but it added to the suspense. The aliens didn't get free moves, but you'd stumble into view of one, and then suddenly try to get as many of your guys to shoot at it as possible. Frequently, there was three or four of his buddies backing him out just outside of the fog of war, and if you didn't handle the situation correctly, you'd take losses. Statistically, you had to play the numbers of how many troops to advance and how far, since you had roughly twice (or up to four times) as many units as you do in the reboot - you could play better odds about taking shots and such, even if the troops were less accurate than they are in the reboot. And it was a lot more pleasing to the player, because it felt like if you fucked up, it was your fault. Not you potentially getting screwed over by a quasi-random scurry-move that maybe forces you to overextend or be insufficiently aggressive in response.
Now the scurry-move does work in the reboot EU and 2, but speaking from a design standpoint, it's ultimately frustrating because it removes player agency. The player has to play around it - which is the snail-crawl through the map.


Quote
the real problem is that EU doesn't pressure you to do anything at all (outside of timed missions), which is where the slowness comes from.

Kind of? But that's a results-oriented way of looking at the problem, instead of method-oriented. Yes, timed missions force the player to maintain speed, but that doesn't solve the initial problem of why a player would want to move cautiously - it's a gameplay hotfix, not a solution. Evidently, Firaxis agreed, because they introduced the concealment mode to try to help solve the problem and at least make players want to run in and feel safe.
But again, that's not an actual solution, it's a post-problem fix. Going back to their original implementation and reworking it so that this problem didn't appear at all would have been a smarter thing to do - because you can still run into this problem half-way through a mission, when both you and the aliens have lost sight of each other, yet there's more squads of them to take out, so you move slow like a snail on your way through cover until you spot something. It's also bad, I've noticed, on the urban maps with lots of corners, because you can frequently stumble into enemy vision without realizing it until too late.

I was thinking about this a little earlier as I was doing my job tasks, and I realized this is almost exactly what Terror From The Deeps was to the original X-Com: If you wanted more X-Com, that's what it is. Not any real gameplay improvements, but the game's a little harder(especially in the strategy phase), has a new setting, some new enemies and stuff, but it's pretty much the same game as the first time around. X-Com 2 has the same BS arbitrary choice "which penalty/reward do you want to take?" missions, and so on.
I find I really miss all the troop voice accents that were in EU. Sad


I do like the reworking of the Geoscape so that you're not just spending time, but actually doing things. Even if it's nonsensical things like spend 7 days to pick up a monthly supply drop.
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« Reply #179 on: February 06, 2016, 06:42:57 AM »

Quote
I find I really miss all the troop voice accents that were in EU

what? there are more accents in this that than there were in EU. i never noticed troops in EU having different accents tbh.

Quote
but the 'free move' is a silly gimmick that was introduced in order to make up for the extreme cover bonuses/penalties.

how does it "make up" for anything when cover is literally the central game mechanic? it's not like they just arbitrarily decided to give you "extreme" cover bonuses, the entire game is based around using cover and it's a decent system too. i don't know what's supposed "inelegant" about it. the scurry is a necessity to ensure that enemies are in cover when you face them, so as to not give you an ridiculous advantage. how else would you handle it? imo, if firaxis had just made this a "hidden" mechanic (i.e. you trigger an enemy group and they automatically spawn in cover within a certain radius), no one would have complained. singleplayer strategy games need some sort of rule asymmetry to work.

Quote
This problem of crawling through maps was also present in the original X-Com, but it added to the suspense.

i find the same to be true for new xcom and i don't think you have that much less agency. the decisionmaking is just tighter.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 07:11:54 AM by Silbereisen » Logged
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