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[neon]

so, i asked nightshade if i could make a thread about this.  i'm not sure if it warrants one yet, but if it becomes a reality, i'd rather it have its own topic.

Story Mode.

is it a good idea?  how should it be implemented?  let's iron it out in this thread.

edit: also..

DISCLAIMER: Totally hypothetical discussion. Story mode is not a high priority until the multiplayer is nice and semi-complete, and several balanced characters, stages and combat systems are implemented. Moreso, I'm guessing everyone currently discussing this feels the same way. This statement precludes everyone from having to inject "eventually" and "when its done" hereafter. Batteries not included.

(sorry gainsworthy, i thought i might use your post)

[William Broom]

I think the biggest hurdle would be implementing AI. It would be really hard to make AI for a fighting game that poses any kind of challenge. Alternatively you could make AI like in Subspace Emissary (i.e. they're fucking dumb) but then you have to make whole levels to accomodate hordes of such enemies, plus you have to create new sprites for all the singleplayer enemies.

I guess AI would be the easier of the two, but I don't think either of them are very nice prospects. I think, considering the dangers of feature creep to a collaborative project, Story Mode should be relegated to a back corner until we have a playable multiplayer game working.

[Annabelle Kennedy]

we *need* cpus for indie brawl dont we?  whats the fun of having opportune 4 player mayhem fun when you've only got 2 people??

[neon]

annabelle has a point, i thought it was a given that cpu's were going to be in the game

[Renton]

I support the Subspace Emmisary style story mode. Just make long scrolling maps and low-hp versions of the already established AI in hordes.

[Danrul]

NO SUBSPACE EMISSARY STORY!  IT SUCKED ANUS!  THAT IS ALL.  EVERYTHING IS FINE

[medieval]

As long as it's not as repetitive as Subspace.

[Gainsworthy]

Story Mode. I'm assuming this is for Indie Brawl: Perfect World Edition?


Well, despite the fact it may not get done for, you know, a while, I have a suggestion. Not sure if it's taking copyright (or mental strain) too far, but I'd like to see Riffs on existing levels that the characters come from. You'd fight through say, Grass Town, make a bomb, open the door and... survive for 90 seconds in N's world of inadvertetnly homicidal robots. Once that's done, the Gate opens and you're thrown into... The Deep Forest from Knytt. Where you can peacefully soak in the scenery and traverse to the exit.

And so on and so forth. Maybe they'd be occupied by enemies from game worlds alien to their own, or perhaps it'd stay native. Either way, I'd suggest that the art and sprites used could remain Native (with PERMISSION, of course) - it'd be less of a strain, it would look right and you wouldn't have to make excuses for why the Brawlers are so damned stupid.


Perhaps that's an insane amount of work, enough for another large game entirely. But, we are a team and it would keep the entertainment and variety flowing at a nice pace.

Whaddya think?

By the way, This all said, we should really focus on making the multiplayer aspect work first. Get the characters down. Make it polished and fun. Then, and only then, flesh out potential single player.

[Renton]

Story Mode. I'm assuming this is for Indie Brawl: Perfect World Edition?


Well, despite the fact it may not get done for, you know, a while, I have a suggestion. Not sure if it's taking copyright (or mental strain) too far, but I'd like to see Riffs on existing levels that the characters come from. You'd fight through say, Grass Town, make a bomb, open the door and... survive for 90 seconds in N's world of inadvertetnly homicidal robots. Once that's done, the Gate opens and you're thrown into... The Deep Forest from Knytt. Where you can peacefully soak in the scenery and traverse to the exit.

And so on and so forth. Maybe they'd be occupied by enemies from game worlds alien to their own, or perhaps it'd stay native. Either way, I'd suggest that the art and sprites used could remain Native (with PERMISSION, of course) - it'd be less of a strain, it would look right and you wouldn't have to make excuses for why the Brawlers are so damned stupid.


Perhaps that's an insane amount of work, enough for another large game entirely. But, we are a team and it would keep the entertainment and variety flowing at a nice pace.

Whaddya think?

By the way, This all said, we should really focus on making the multiplayer aspect work first. Get the characters down. Make it polished and fun. Then, and only then, flesh out potential single player.

You win the thread.

[Soulliard]

If we ever do make a story mode, it won't be for a looooong time. That's doubly true for Gainsworthy's suggestion.

At the very least, we need to create some AI first, and, to be honest, the AI probably won't be very good. The purpose of bots is to make multiplayer battles more interesting; they won't provide much of a challenge on their own (in all likelihood).

For now, I'm putting off AI until we've got multiplayer running smoothly. I don't think it's strictly necessary right now; two players and two stupid bots is not significantly more interesting than two players by themselves. When it comes time to making AI, I'll probably need some help, since I've never made particularly intelligent enemies for any of my games.

[shig]

Did anyone here ever play Multihero?

It's a Super Smash copy with a huge story/stage mode. It's kinda crappy and unpolished but it's pretty FUCKING HARD fun, really.

I suggest playing it for... Inspiration.

[Xion]

Just curious, but what's the hardest part of coding platformer AI? Would it be the pathfinding?

[Rory]

Story Mode. I'm assuming this is for Indie Brawl: Perfect World Edition?


Well, despite the fact it may not get done for, you know, a while, I have a suggestion. Not sure if it's taking copyright (or mental strain) too far, but I'd like to see Riffs on existing levels that the characters come from. You'd fight through say, Grass Town, make a bomb, open the door and... survive for 90 seconds in N's world of inadvertetnly homicidal robots. Once that's done, the Gate opens and you're thrown into... The Deep Forest from Knytt. Where you can peacefully soak in the scenery and traverse to the exit.

And so on and so forth. Maybe they'd be occupied by enemies from game worlds alien to their own, or perhaps it'd stay native. Either way, I'd suggest that the art and sprites used could remain Native (with PERMISSION, of course) - it'd be less of a strain, it would look right and you wouldn't have to make excuses for why the Brawlers are so damned stupid.


Perhaps that's an insane amount of work, enough for another large game entirely. But, we are a team and it would keep the entertainment and variety flowing at a nice pace.

Whaddya think?

By the way, This all said, we should really focus on making the multiplayer aspect work first. Get the characters down. Make it polished and fun. Then, and only then, flesh out potential single player.

You win the thread.

Seconded.

I think what we need to focus on is getting the multiplayer aspect finished. Then we can, say, release a "demo version" that's just multiplayer, and keep working on story mode and AI for the "full version".

And throughout this post, equate "we" to "you". I wouldn't have a clue how to do any of this stuff

[William Broom]

Just curious, but what's the hardest part of coding platformer AI? Would it be the pathfinding?

That would be part of it, but also the tactical decisions involved in a fighting game, and also the element of unpredictability. Still, it wouldn't be impossible, especially if we could find someone with experience in the field.

[William Broom]

So, I know I kind of poopoo'ed the idea of a story mode earlier, but it's grown on me. AI doesn't seem as hard as it's cracked up to be after playing Multihero, and as Gainsworthy said, some of the levels could be rips from homages to the originals.

What did people think of SSB Brawl's story? I loved the cheesy slamming together of all the different characters and settings. If we could do something like that for Indie Brawl, it would be great. The story could be told almost entirely through dialogue boxes to save effort, and it would give us all the opportunity to write an honest-to-goodness crossover fanfic without feeling dirty inside.

[KennEH!]

I was thinking a simple dialogue between the characters before a fight would suffice. Then maybe an intro pic with a little prologue (why said character is in this fight and such)than have the same kinda thing for the end.

[medieval]

Somewhat like Tekken, you mean?

[William Broom]

That would work too, I guess. It depends on whether the story mode is a series of fights like Tekken/SSB Classic Mode, or a series of levels like Devil Within/Subspace Emissary.

[Gainsworthy]

DISCLAIMER: Totally hypothetical discussion. Gainsworthy does not support story mode until the multiplayer is nice and semi-complete, and several balanced characters, stages and combat systems are implemented. Moreso, I'm guessing everyone currently discussing this feels the same way. This statement precludes me from having to inject "eventually" and "when its done" hereafter. Batteries not included.


As I'm sure you can figure from my earlier post, I'd much prefer a varied, complex story mode to a series of one-on-ones. Not that there shouldn't be the occasional AI versus match, of course. It would require more work - extra enemy sprites, code, sounds, more mechanics- but the final payoff would be far more interesting for one such as myself. I'd think it would also be more in vein with the fact all the characters are staying faithful to their original selves, rather than variants on a central mold.


I heartily agree with Chutup - some kind of bizarre mash-up story would be fun. Could be silly, or it could be strange and  . Considering we have some rather decent writers here, either way would be good. Displacement of characters and foes into each other's worlds and whatnot. To this end, would it be diligent to create some kind of new villain? Or perhaps a pantheon of old ones?

[William Broom]

Though all my knowledge of him is second-hand, Chzo seems like a good choice for an overarching villain.