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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsPapers, Please [Available 8/8]
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corpocracy
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« Reply #200 on: February 06, 2013, 02:34:06 PM »


@ corpocracy
Wow thank you for the long comments. About dialog trees, I'm sorry to say that I probably won't go there. From a development perspective, I don't like to write much dialog. And from a gamer perspective, I don't like to read much dialog. I think the game works better by making the motions more mechanical and less like a traditional dialog tree. At least it enhances the bureaucratic feel for me. I do like the idea about requesting a bribe though. I could fit that in with a drop-down button like the fingerprinting. The idea about the newspapers is also a good one. I've kinda rolled that idea around in my head for awhile. The newspaper headlines format is a great way to update the player without much reading. And finally, you're right about the passports. I'll definitely make them more varied since one of the main things people miss is the entrant's nationality. Not sure about color-coding their clothes but that's not outside consideration. Smiley



Lol. Sorry, I'm kinda long winded. I guess the main idea behind color-coding nationalities goes to the idea of building prejudice within the game. I think one of the biggest issues people think about when they think about a game like this are the gut reactions people might have. In America, latinos are constantly harassed for their paperwork because they MIGHT be illegal immigrants. In Europe (and in America as well), muslims are a huge target and anyone wearing a religious head dress or if they look like they are middle eastern, they also tend to be harassed. Hell, even in Japan I know westerners stick out like a sore thumb and even though there is not an outright prejudice against them, I'm sure customs agents might react differently when a westerner approaches them.

I guess this comes down to whether or not you want this as an aspect of the gameplay. Because this is a fictional world (which I think is a great platform to look at these kinds of issues) you would need some way to build these kinds of prejudices to the player. For instance Kolechia seems like the main enemy of Argotzka (man I am butchering the names of these countries...). If that's true, then if most Kolechians had similar colored clothes (or some sort of headwear) and we constantly got negative views of the Kolechians from the newspaper, the directives, and from actions taken at the border crossing (bombers, etc.) you might start to build a prejudice in the player whenever they see those "Kolechian" attributes. The player might find themselves strip-searching them more often, denying them entry, etc.
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ImaginaryThomas
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« Reply #201 on: February 08, 2013, 12:42:38 PM »

I love this game. Really excited to see more.

I see the platform you're using has mobile support. Is that a possibility in the future? I don't really care for the drudgery of most mobile phone games but I could really see playing this on my phone.

Also how do you like the platform? I'm working on a game I hope to port to mobile eventually, I couldn't find a good platform that would support mobile os.
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wmcduff
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« Reply #202 on: February 08, 2013, 04:25:33 PM »

@ wmcduff
My big fear is that ramping up too slowly results in players losing interest. Helsing's Fire had this problem and I still kinda regret the shallow difficulty curve there. For this game, I'm now hoping that by pointing out the specific errors on the warning slips, players can get up to speed faster.

Indeed, my description probably had too slow a curve.  But introducing piece by piece (country of origin, dates & passport numbers, work permits and stamps, city of issue, faces, perhaps?) does help with establishing a narrative arc, as does requiring more people in the same time period.  But really, the difficulty curve is a playtesting thing more than anything.  Get a bunch of people to vote and try to find a middle ground. Smiley

Looking forward to the CHUNK of the stamp, personally.
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dukope
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« Reply #203 on: February 08, 2013, 11:13:59 PM »

@ corpocracy
I definitely understand what you're saying. Part of me wants to color code as you suggest but at the same time I'd prefer a less clear, gamey distinction. I think a better approach would be to divide up certain facial features so different nationalities actually look different.

@ ImaginaryThomas
I've tested the game out on an iPad and it ended up being a little tight. Things are designed for the mouse so far and using a finger makes it harder to tap and drag. Haxe/NME is great and one of the reasons I chose it is for the mobile targets though. After the PC/Mac versions I'm thinking to adjust the UI to work better for touch.

@ wmcduff
Roger that.



Sounds
For the past few days I've been adding sound effects. This is usually a task I hate but this time it's been ok. I get most of my sounds from freesound.org (free) or soundsnap.com (paid) and edit them extensively in Audacity. Sounds definitely help the game feel more alive.

Widescreen
I've decided to adjust the aspect ratio from 3:2 to 16:9 to give more room for the documents. This'd be difficult to do with a proper 16:9 resolution (640x360), but I decided to just make it wider and keep the height the same (570x320).



I might stretch the top space to the right, or add a vertical road with visible traffic. Something more for the terrorists to blow up.

LIBRARY CARD, PLEASE
I had to share this, from johnki:



An ANSI mockup of his take on Papers, Please. Click for the full size original on his tumblr; it's worth it.
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pluckyporcupine
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« Reply #204 on: February 09, 2013, 04:44:40 AM »

Sounds
YES!!! Finally, I can hear the sound of the stamp coming down as I reject one of those lying sons of-.

Widescreen
This will help immensely when work permits and falsified documents start showing up. I had issues balancing the space of all the documents and then, on top of that, trying to check seals and all that because I was never sure.

LIBRARY CARD, PLEASE
Haha glad you liked it. :D
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Core Xii
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« Reply #205 on: February 11, 2013, 03:42:40 AM »

That was strangely pleasant.

I didn't like the stamping thingy; I feel as if a simpler, manually-operated, hand-fitting stamp tool would be better: Drag either stamp tool on the visa. Click it to stamp down.

It's slightly annoying when you violate procedure, the warning prints, but I can't seem to dispose of it! So it just stays there on the desk. I suppose it's an effective reminder, but... feels cluttery.

I like to use the date on the daily instructions document as reference for verifying dates, but the inspection mode doesn't recognize it so I have to click the clock.

The top part of the screen was just a hint too tall for my taste. It could be a bit narrower, leaving more room for the interactive areas that actually have relevant information.

The inability to call "next" before the current customer has completely exited the booth was irritating, combined with the slow pace the next one waddles in. I ought to be able to call "next" as soon as the current customer is leaving.
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dukope
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« Reply #206 on: February 11, 2013, 05:48:39 AM »

I didn't like the stamping thingy; I feel as if a simpler, manually-operated, hand-fitting stamp tool would be better: Drag either stamp tool on the visa. Click it to stamp down.

I talked about this earlier in the thread. A drag-n-drop stamp would require applying the stamp when releasing the mouse button, which doesn't feel as good as stamping on button down as the stamp bar allows.

Quote
It's slightly annoying when you violate procedure, the warning prints, but I can't seem to dispose of it! So it just stays there on the desk. I suppose it's an effective reminder, but... feels cluttery.

Actually I quite like this. It's an incentive to avoid warnings beyond the monetary penalty. You can always throw it onto the far left of the counter to get it mostly out of the way.

I'll try to hook up the bulletin date for correlations. And I'll also see if I can enable calling next before the current guy completely leaves. Shouldn't be too hard. Thanks for the comments.



Confiscating Documents
Just finished the confiscation system:


At some point in the game, you'll be required to confiscate certain documents. The drawer at the bottom can be opened to receive these documents. As part of the larger story, some entrants may offer money for a particular person's passport from the confiscation drawer...
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Quarry
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« Reply #207 on: February 11, 2013, 06:10:16 AM »

This game starts to feel very emotional when you are forced to take right decisions but still have to protect your country
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corpocracy
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« Reply #208 on: February 11, 2013, 09:02:23 AM »




Confiscating Documents
Just finished the confiscation system:


At some point in the game, you'll be required to confiscate certain documents. The drawer at the bottom can be opened to receive these documents. As part of the larger story, some entrants may offer money for a particular person's passport from the confiscation drawer...


Wow, this looks intense. I don't know why, but the act of confiscating feels like it will be even harder than denying entry. I actually wonder if it's possible to have someone stay in line demanding their documents back (could go along with the moods you were talking about earlier. The "angry" immigrants would be particularly stubborn). The only way you would be able to call the next person would be to have the current person dragged off by security...
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ImaginaryThomas
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« Reply #209 on: February 11, 2013, 09:37:46 AM »



At some point in the game, you'll be required to confiscate certain documents. The drawer at the bottom can be opened to receive these documents. As part of the larger story, some entrants may offer money for a particular person's passport from the confiscation drawer...


That's a great idea. Especially since the level end screen implies you'll need to keep your family fed. If you need the money you may have to make the decision. Are there plans on having some sort of followup when you let people through that shouldn't have been? some may actually cause harm but others genuinely do not have the right documents?
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dukope
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« Reply #210 on: February 12, 2013, 06:07:47 AM »

Almost Made It

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randomshade
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« Reply #211 on: February 12, 2013, 06:16:31 AM »

Whoa! Mixing a wee bit of 6 Degrees of Sabotage, eh? I love it despite being incredibly cruel/brutal :D

Edit: The crowd fleeing is a really nice touch. Is your job over for the day if that happens? Do you get bonus money for preventing infiltration by a foreign criminal?
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pluckyporcupine
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« Reply #212 on: February 12, 2013, 06:18:57 AM »

Almost Made It
Oh man, that's terrifying. But it makes a lot of sense.

My only problem with this is...you're the guy standing at the desk accepting/rejecting immigrants. You definitely can't get to a position to snipe them. This addition breaks the role down a bit, killing quite a bit of the very well-built sense of immersion. Maybe a button would be more appropriate? You see the guy and you have to press the button in time for them to get the guy?

So...confiscation, this...new build? :D
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Ant
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« Reply #213 on: February 12, 2013, 06:19:32 AM »

Heh, guards with batons? Nope just shoot them. Evil
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Mef
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« Reply #214 on: February 12, 2013, 10:06:26 AM »

I think such situations should be resolved with
a push of some "alarm" button instead. This way
the character never leaves his post and it's the
guards that deal with the situation at hand.

Same "alarm" button could be used for other events
as well, like when someone has forged papers.
Right now it's kinda silly to just give back fake
documents instead of calling police/security/militia.

Great game btw, just ran into it and I really like
the mood of both this and Republia Times.
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"Stand rigid for the next battle
Peace means reloading your guns
The love for life is all hatred in disguise
A carnival creation with masks undone"
pluckyporcupine
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« Reply #215 on: February 12, 2013, 11:11:48 AM »

So my girlfriend went to try this on her computer (the desktop version). It was oriented sideways when she loaded it up. Then she ran it as administrator and it was oriented correctly. Odd bug. I didn't have to run it as admin on my computer.

The only thing that I'd think would affect that and is noticeably different between our computers is that she has an Intel Integrated (GMA 3000 I think) card and I have an ATi card.

EDIT: Also, she noticed that it seems that if a foreigner that is coming for work and has neither a work pass nor an entry permit, you have to highlight the rule for the entry permit to get a discrepancy. Highlighting the rule for the work pass wouldn't work, even though both are relevant.

EDIT2: She also says to hurry up with the detaining haha.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 11:36:55 AM by johnki » Logged

DustyDrake
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« Reply #216 on: February 12, 2013, 12:50:29 PM »

Almost Made It


What happened to the tranqulizer darts?
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gimymblert
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« Reply #217 on: February 12, 2013, 04:41:37 PM »

too expensive
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Quarry
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« Reply #218 on: February 12, 2013, 04:58:34 PM »

You have to exterminate any possible threats
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dukope
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« Reply #219 on: February 12, 2013, 07:30:44 PM »

My only problem with this is...you're the guy standing at the desk accepting/rejecting immigrants. You definitely can't get to a position to snipe them. This addition breaks the role down a bit, killing quite a bit of the very well-built sense of immersion. Maybe a button would be more appropriate? You see the guy and you have to press the button in time for them to get the guy?

Sniping is the payoff for having a top "overview" screen so I definitely don't want just an alarm button. If I had to explain the mechanics of it I'd say you're firing from a port on the right side of the booth. Maybe I could show the gun barrel peaking out or something. Or even have the bullet come from the booth so you'd be aiming a dotted trajectory line instead of a crosshair. That might help with the difficulty since currently the crosshair is too easy.

I've planned 3 options to deal with breakthroughs:
1. Do nothing. Guards will deal with it. No bonus pay.
2. Tranquilizer Darts. Harder to aim and takes multiple shots. May still detonate. Full bonus pay.
3. Sniper Gun. Over in one. Full bonus pay.

Quote from: johnki
So...confiscation, this...new build? :D

Confiscation and sniping are technically implemented but not integrated into the gameplay yet. I still have the photo searches and detaining to implement before all the major daytime features are done. After that I'll work them into the actual story. So no new builds for a bit, sorry.

Is your job over for the day if that happens? Do you get bonus money for preventing infiltration by a foreign criminal?

Yeah the day ends when someone tries to break through. If you stop the intruder yourself, you'll be compensated.

Right now it's kinda silly to just give back fake
documents instead of calling police/security/militia.

The DETAIN button will allow you to arrest anybody with bad documents.

So my girlfriend went to try this on her computer (the desktop version). It was oriented sideways when she loaded it up. Then she ran it as administrator and it was oriented correctly. Odd bug. I didn't have to run it as admin on my computer.
The only thing that I'd think would affect that and is noticeably different between our computers is that she has an Intel Integrated (GMA 3000 I think) card and I have an ATi card.

Thanks for the info. Someone else mentioned this bug. Does she have her monitor oriented vertically by any chance? I mistakenly left some iPad orientation logic in the desktop version. Could be messing with things even for a normal orientation so I'll just take it out.

Quote from: johnki
EDIT: Also, she noticed that it seems that if a foreigner that is coming for work and has neither a work pass nor an entry permit, you have to highlight the rule for the entry permit to get a discrepancy. Highlighting the rule for the work pass wouldn't work, even though both are relevant.

I think I've fixed this. Will double check.
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